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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-14-07, 12:41 AM
 
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People aren't against the same-turn jump-in-jump-out because it's powerful in any way. Hell, for that price, you could get a Whirlwind that is almost as untouchable, but does much more damage. They're against it because it removes the interactivity from the game, something which alwasy strikes people as not being right. However, since most people don't understand that it's the lack of interactivity bothering them, assume that the squad is bothering them because it's unfair, the closest thing most people come to defining the real problem. But, since it is unfair, it must be unfairfor a reason, it must do something that is too good. Since this squad only does one thing, drops a template, that template must then be unfair. As a result, they blame the template for being far too powerful, when in fact it is simply irritating.

In conclusion: Hawks are uninteractive, not unfair. Except maybe against Guard.

The way I see it is they can jump in and out, and that seems very clear. Similarly, one grenade only seems clear.
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-14-07, 03:03 AM
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If they can jump in and out at the same time, having the models seems redundant. If you're just going to jump in and out and never actually use them on the table proper, why bother paying for a unit of metal models anyway?

The reason I'd be against jumping in and out in the same turn (and I fully expect this to get FAQ'ed, because let's face it, it's an idiotic thing to be able to do. Not because it's broken, but because, as uber said, it's not interactive.) is because Warhammer is about the models. It completely goes against the nature of the game to have a unit which never has to actually physically be placed on the table.

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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-14-07, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Son of Horus
The reason I'd be against jumping in and out in the same turn (and I fully expect this to get FAQ'ed, because let's face it, it's an idiotic thing to be able to do. Not because it's broken, but because, as uber said, it's not interactive.) is because Warhammer is about the models. It completely goes against the nature of the game to have a unit which never has to actually physically be placed on the table.
*cough* Orbital Strikes *cough* :D
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-14-07, 04:52 AM
 
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*Cough*Onlyusefulinagamewherethedefendermustholdap ieceofterrainandyou'retheattackerandeveninthatcase moreannoyingthanuseful*Cough*
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-14-07, 05:24 AM
 
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*Cough*Onlyusefulinagamewherethedefendermustholdap ieceofterrainandyou'retheattackerandeveninthatcase moreannoyingthanuseful*Cough*
It's still in the same vein. Also consider that a minimized Swooping Hawks squad with Skyleap is 130 points, give or take.

130 points for a scattering large blast every turn at S4 AP5. If you're that concerned about it, it's easy enough to put your squads in formations to minimize the casualties.

I do admit it's rather cheesy if you have people fielding three five man Hawk squads just for the templates. Like people used to field minimized Ranger squads with Alaitoc just to get the disruption rolls. The difference is it's impossible for the Hawks to kill a four wound Hive Tyrant before the game even starts. It's unfun, but not to the point of broken.
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-14-07, 06:35 AM
 
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I"m never going to say it's ioverpowered, even though it gets close to it against a Guard infantry formation. I'm just saying it's a crap thing to play against.
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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-16-07, 02:36 PM Thread Starter
 
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yeah i can see all that, but when i read the whole unit gets to drop a grenade pack i was thinkign why didnt they say squad?, because sometimes a unit is a single model.
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-16-07, 03:08 PM
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In this case, it's pretty clear that "unit" refers to the squad. In the main rulebook, it talks about the definition of a unit-- they say a unit can be a squad, an individual character, a tank, etc. With the exception of the Imperial Guard infantry platoons, it's easiest to think of a unit as a single entity that occupies any given single force organization chart.

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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-25-07, 12:43 AM
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i think one of the worst parts is actually the fact they are untouchable. if the eldar player gets the second turn. they can wait until the last turn ds them and have 3 scoring units on the board. 3 units that cant be killed.
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-25-07, 12:33 PM
 
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They can already do that with Jetbikes cheaper, more reliably, and in a Troops choice.
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