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post #1 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-07-07, 07:42 PM Thread Starter
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Default Rending the Rules

Rending - It seems to me like half 40k gamers oppose it while the other half are totally for it. I've read the description of Rending in the rulebook and I just can't figure out what all the commotion is about. I've only ever fielded a rending assault cannon twice to little effect.

Ok, so at the risk of being labeled a total fool, I'm going to ask a risky question:

Why all the fuss over rending?
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post #2 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-07-07, 08:36 PM
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Because statistically, it's easier to crack a Land Raider open with a S6 rending weapon than a lascannon.

Look at it like this. With four shots from a BS4 assault cannon, you hit 2.64 times. You need a 6 to rend, so of three hits, you've got three dice to try to get a six. That six basically gets a glance on a 2+ since it's S6+6+D6 for the rending. To sum it up briefly, you have a 16% chance of getting a rending hit that penetrates the vehicle with one volley.

A lascannon at BS4 hits 66% of the time. Of that 66%, only a third of those shots will actually damage AV14. It comes out to something like 11.5% of lascannon shots that hit will penetrate AV14, as opposed to the assault cannon's 16% chance.

The problem here is that the assault cannon is supposed to be an anti-infantry weapon, not something that's better at opening up the best armor in the game than dedicated anti-tank weapons.

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post #3 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-07-07, 08:57 PM
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I've killed an uninjured Wraithlord with a single Assault Cannon. No matter how rare, that should never happen.

The main problem is that Assault Cannons make a mockery of figuring how to balance anti-troop and anti-tank in an already simplistic game system. Taking lots of Assault Cannons have saved you having to worry.

Not only are they anti-tank, they're superior to a Lascannon or Missile at killing vehicles, albeit at a shorter range.


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post #4 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-07-07, 09:00 PM
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The simple fix for that is to make assault cannons AP1 on a to-hit roll of 6. That'd stop them from chewing through heavy armour.

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post #5 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-07-07, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Son of Horus
The simple fix for that is to make assault cannons AP1 on a to-hit roll of 6. That'd stop them from chewing through heavy armour.
Yep that I would like. Perhaps in the Space Marine Redux - fingers crossed.


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post #6 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-07-07, 09:40 PM
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I'm not convinced. As things stand Marines aren't excessively overpowered. If you compare the average marine finish at the GT to Eldar, Chaos or Even Dark Eldar you'll find they place way lower.

The assault cannon only becomes cheesy if you pack a list with them.
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post #7 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-07-07, 10:39 PM
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Which of course, many do....

one thing I want is the ability to split my fire everywhere, it makes no sense that a squad of 10 guard or marines or whatever all have to fire at 1 target with everything, is the guy with the lascannon not smart enough to realize maybe he would be better off firing at the massive tank looming overhead instead of the little man no bigger than a squat running at him, or is that far too complex for the 10yr olds?

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post #8 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-07-07, 11:01 PM
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on average marines place lower, but marines a used alot more than any other army. This means it makes sense for an army to be made, in order to deal with marines, as your likely to get 4 out of 6 games against them or similar.

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post #9 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-07-07, 11:19 PM
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i've never seen assault cannons to be the be all end all of weapons. People still use lots of Lascannons, the place I see it is in Missle Launchers, because now you don't have to pick frag or krak, you just fire your assault cannon and let it decide

Overall, I think dropping it back down to 3 shots would probably fix most of the problems with it.
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post #10 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-07-07, 11:42 PM
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Problem with the assault cannon?

You have a choice:

Take one heavy bolter for troops, one lascannon for tanks.

Take two assault cannon for both.

That's what it boils down to- a no-brainer.

A single Assault Cannon of course isn't going to win the game for you, cause the enemy army to spontaneously combust, etc.
But it is meant to be a terrifying anti-infantry weapon- like the Minigun in Predator (the Arnie film) but slightly bigger. Being Str 6 and 4 shot represents this, as does the AP 1 on a 6- it mows down troops.

But it should not crack open a Land Raider better than a dedicated anti-tank weapon like a lascannon.

I propose the Assault Cannon having the Divine Guidance ability- on a roll to wound of 6 it is AP 1.


I'm hesitant to make all Rending weapons like this- as Tyranids especially need them for cracking open tanks. Their only other anti-tank is a Venom Cannon that can only glance and a monstrous creature that needs to slowly walk into the tank before attacking it.
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