questions regarding 7th edition rules - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
40k Rules Discussion Post any Warhammer 40k rules queries and discussions here.

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 09-03-14, 11:59 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
troybuckle's Avatar
troybuckle's Flag is: Canada
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Goose Bay, Labrador Canada
Posts: 1,177
Reputation: 23
Default questions regarding 7th edition rules

Hey Guys,

I have a few questions regarding 7th edition rules as I have yet to buy the new rule book… After getting the BRB for 5th and 6th the 7th is going to get eBayed ahhhh.

So here they are (please back up with rules):
1. Can a Monstrous creature put a tiny part of their base on a ruin and gain a cover save from it, even though its basically in the open (don’t need 25%)?
2. Can a small (infantry base) barley touch a ruin, but be completely in the open and still get a cover save as well?
3. I think I know this, but does ignore cover sv. weapons, still ignore jink?
4. Do I now have to declare if I am going to jink, before he even rolls his shooting?
5. Can someone give me a breakdown of fast skimmer movement and still shooting?
6. How does fearless work in combat now? No fearless checks, and still no falling back or getting swept? (I always hated this rule, it’s the worst rule in the game… auto passing all these checks… make some armies just ignore a large portion of rules entirely.)
7. Can you run, then embark in a transport if in range?
8. Does blast (large & small) hit multiple levels of a building, or just the level it was fired at?

Few other questions:
· My buddy I game with tends to move his units straight through solid building walls where there are no openings, a lot. Now he rolls for movement, but in my mind I don’t think a unit should be able to do that logically. What do you think?
· He also tends to place models in places (on terrain) where they can’t actually stand, and even fall over and/or move units though tight spots where model bases can’t fit. This is usually because he is hugging terrain.
· Now he has “corrected” me a lot these days (after almost every game) about little rules (mostly tweaks to 7th), and that movement stuff above didn’t bother me, but it’s starting to get on my nerves a bit, so should I tell him not to do that stuff anymore and do I have any rules to back it up… he is a stickler for rules.

Thanks.

Troy Buckle
troybuckle is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 09-03-14, 01:16 PM
Senior Member
 
ntaw's Avatar
ntaw's Flag is: Canada
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mississauga, Canada
Posts: 6,323
Reputation: 99
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by troybuckle View Post
1. Can a Monstrous creature put a tiny part of their base on a ruin and gain a cover save from it, even though its basically in the open (don’t need 25%)?
Ruins do not require that you be 25% obscured any more. If the terrain isn't on a base to begin with, decide pre-game with your opponent what qualifies as 'in' or 'out' of the ruin. If it is on a base, then so long as you're on it you're on it I'd say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by troybuckle View Post
2. Can a small (infantry base) barley touch a ruin, but be completely in the open and still get a cover save as well?
Same as above, but if 99% of the squad is out and 1% of one model's base is touching you'd have a hard time convincing anyone you're in cover.

Quote:
Originally Posted by troybuckle View Post
3. I think I know this, but does ignore cover sv. weapons, still ignore jink?
Jink is a cover save, so if something ignores cover it ignores Jink.

Quote:
Originally Posted by troybuckle View Post
4. Do I now have to declare if I am going to jink, before he even rolls his shooting?
Absolutely. "The decision must be made before any To Hit rolls are made", pg. 167 BRB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by troybuckle View Post
5. Can someone give me a breakdown of fast skimmer movement and still shooting?
Stationary and Combat Speed (up to 6") all weapons, Combat Speed (6"-12") two weapons at full BS and the rest Snap Shots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by troybuckle View Post
6. How does fearless work in combat now? No fearless checks, and still no falling back or getting swept? (I always hated this rule, it’s the worst rule in the game… auto passing all these checks… make some armies just ignore a large portion of rules entirely.)
Fearless is an automatic pass of all Morale and Leadership tests, so no falling back and no sweeping indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by troybuckle View Post
7. Can you run, then embark in a transport if in range?
You can only embark/disembark in the Movement Phase and Running happens in the Shooting Phase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by troybuckle View Post
8. Does blast (large & small) hit multiple levels of a building, or just the level it was fired at?
Just the level it's firing at, though this one is a bit of a relic from 6th in my mind. I actually can't seem to find anything on this in the BRB. More research will be done...

Quote:
Originally Posted by troybuckle View Post
My buddy I game with tends to move his units straight through solid building walls where there are no openings, a lot.
Difficult Terrain test and you're good in my books.

Quote:
Originally Posted by troybuckle View Post
He also tends to place models in places (on terrain) where they can’t actually stand, and even fall over and/or move units though tight spots where model bases can’t fit. This is usually because he is hugging terrain.
If it can't stand, it can't fit. The only exception to this in my games is the occasional crater side during an assault, but we just push everyone up to the edge and say they're all in base to base contact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by troybuckle View Post
so should I tell him not to do that stuff anymore and do I have any rules to back it up… he is a stickler for rules.
Have the rules to back up anything you contest, or shrug and roll dice on it. There are a few times my buddy and I have come up on things that neither of us are willing to move on. If neither of us have rules to back it up, we roll off and research later. It's a game and we only have so much time together to play it, we can do the rules work in between games.

Hope this helps!

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

40k Army Projects

Industrial Table WIP
ntaw is offline  
post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 09-03-14, 01:49 PM
Senior Member
 
don_mondo's Avatar
don_mondo's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 1,822
Default

To add to the above answers.

2. Bear in mind, cover is on a model-by-model basis. So if that one model is touching the ruin and the rest of the unit is outside, they get no cover save.

8. Yeah, this one is a mess. By RAW, any models under the blast marker/template are hit. So shoot the top floor of a 5-story ruin and models on any floor underneath the attack are hit. I'm hoping they will FAQ this back to the single floor, but the complete omission of anything like that in the main rules leads me to believe that it will not happen.

Building walls. Unless you state pre-game that they are impassable, then yes, just a difficult terrain test and move through.

Going to disagree with the 'can't stand/can't fit' statement. Some terrain is just built so that a model cannot stand on it. Rubbled floors, sloped hills, etc etc. Looks pretty but makes moving/placing models a real pain. Many a game I've had to lay a model on it's side to mark it's position because the terrain did not allow it to stand upright, even tho it was clearly a spot that the model could move through or to. Pretty much, if it was not declared impassable pre-game, then it can be moved onto or through.

Tight spots. Not sure I understand this one. Tight spots as in impassable terrain on either side? Difficult terrain on either side? What?

Don "MONDO"
don_mondo is offline  
 
post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 09-03-14, 03:58 PM
Senior Member
 
ntaw's Avatar
ntaw's Flag is: Canada
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mississauga, Canada
Posts: 6,323
Reputation: 99
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by don_mondo View Post
Yeah, this one is a mess.
In part, I'm glad I haven't just missed something. I think my buddies and I will keep on playing it as it was written in 6th, but I'll bring it up to see how everyone feels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by don_mondo View Post
Many a game I've had to lay a model on it's side to mark it's position because the terrain did not allow it to stand upright, even tho it was clearly a spot that the model could move through or to.
It all works out in the end, we don't have any terrain on either of our tables aside from craters that mess with models standing. Anything else is a sheer enough edge that you're either on top or you're not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by don_mondo View Post
Tight spots.
Didn't notice that before. If the model's base, or the widest part of the vehicle, can fit through without being stopped by the terrain features you're good to squeeze. Otherwise it's impassable, or a terrain test if you're feeling like getting the game on.

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

40k Army Projects

Industrial Table WIP
ntaw is offline  
post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 09-03-14, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
troybuckle's Avatar
troybuckle's Flag is: Canada
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Goose Bay, Labrador Canada
Posts: 1,177
Reputation: 23
Default

Well its things like, 10 dudes on the top level of a building with a few of them having their bases overlapping. Moving through spaces where bases can’t fit without a terrain test. Also, I just think if your 28mm scale base can’t stand in that spot without toppling over then it can’t stand there… I’m sorry but that marine can’t stand on top of the tailfin of that crashed ship… move him down a back a half inch…so what if he is then out of range lol its one bolter... These are little things I know, but it being stretched for range and cover purposes and he always brings very competitive list as it is to our “friendly games”

Maybe it’s just that I am use to paying with my old buddies who put a bit more logic into the interpretation of the rules lol.
troybuckle is offline  
post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 09-03-14, 07:01 PM
Senior Member
 
don_mondo's Avatar
don_mondo's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 1,822
Default

Logic? How dare you use logic in this game?! But yeah, overlapping bases are a no-no, same with the terrain test bit.

However, Wobbly Model Syndrome covers that tailfin perch.

Don "MONDO"
don_mondo is offline  
post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 09-04-14, 06:22 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 398
Reputation: 2
Default

Unless it is impassable terrain, any model should be able to go through the spot, even vehicles, with a difficult terrain test. Determine before then game what is considered impassable terrain. If it bothers you a ton try to get buildings walls to be considered impassable terrain. See page 21 for moving through anything but impassable terrain.

Models can't move through other models except with things like jump packs, page 18. You choose the order to move them and must maintain coherency with other already moved models, although form my reading you move an entire unit at a time so it is hard to say about within a unit's movement if they are allowed to move past each other.

Models with their bases overlapping, I would view as a big no-no. If they don't fit on the battlements then they don't fit. If they could be within 6" up to down of their unit then maybe they could stand outside the building, but battlements count as being "in" the building sort of as far as occupying it/owning it, so that is still probably not permitted.

The model half on half off a ledge can be a 1/2" for small models and quite a bit more for things like walkers. Unless it is impassable terrain then they can go through or up, so how do you determine their final placement? Do you just average it to it is more up so put the entire thing on the top ledge gaining range? That is probably a pregame just talk about which way you do it for everything.

As far as models not being able to stand up I have some Adepta Sororitas Seraphim that are very top heavy and fall over at even slight angles. Page 20 of the rules covers the wobbly model syndrome.

Wife: "How much do you have invested in these ... miniatures?"

Me: "I don't think invested is the right word."
Suijin is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Warhammer 40K > 40k Rules Discussion

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome