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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-16-14, 02:10 PM Thread Starter
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Default SM sniper camo cloaks, reinforce ruins and cover saves?

Hi I am in a bit of a pickle...]

I am considering giving my scouts camo cloaks. Now I know they gain stealth as a result, adding +1 to their cover saves.

HOWEVER...

I also use a thunderfire cannon. I usually place it in cover (generally a buiding of some kind- offering a 4+ cover save. Now, the techmarine is able to bolster one piece of terrain (not purchased with the army) during the game. This would mean a fortified ruin increases its cover save from 4+ to 3+. If the scouts hid in these ruins, does that confer a 2+ cover save as a result?

Another interesting piece of information.

If someone uses an ADL with quad gun, assuming the building is large enough, can the quad gun be emplaced inside the building, as long as the ADL is connected to the building (i.e. placed next to it?): It was a puzzling question a few weeks ago during a game I watched, and no one could come to an agreed decision

Any help would be appreciated as it could prove an interesting tactic to use (for the guy using this tactic) and a pain in the aŁ% for the army being bombarded.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-16-14, 03:09 PM
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Yes the cloaks stack with the bolstered terrain, and no you can't put fortifications inside of buildings. You'll want to look a the rules for terrain placement, but basically the fortification goes in first, then other terrain around it (alternatively assemble the table then replace terrain with your fortification if playing at an event with preset terrain).
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-16-14, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by friar76 View Post
If the scouts hid in these ruins, does that confer a 2+ cover save as a result?
Yup, I do this with my Imperial Fists. It's great right up until a flame template hits them, but what can you do.

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Originally Posted by friar76 View Post
If someone uses an ADL with quad gun, assuming the building is large enough, can the quad gun be emplaced inside the building, as long as the ADL is connected to the building (i.e. placed next to it?): It was a puzzling question a few weeks ago during a game I watched, and no one could come to an agreed decision
The rules for placing gun emplacements in the new Stronghold Assault book states that they gun needs to be within 6" of the fortification if was bought for. Specific wording/thread here. I would wager that if you really wanted to place your QG so that it gains cover from the ruin you could provided the gun was still within 6" of it's defense line. Just remember that you may also end up providing your enemy with cover as well since you could potentially be limiting your own LoS. Given this point,

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basically the fortification goes in first, then other terrain around it
it would be very hard to get your fortification down and then a ruin close enough to it following the rules for placing terrain for this to be achieved, so basically it shouldn't be coming up too much if you're doing things the GW way.

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(alternatively assemble the table then replace terrain with your fortification if playing at an event with preset terrain).
Dude, that is a great idea. It will certainly save time when I'm on my way over to a buddy's for a quick game and he has to wait for me to get there with my ADL to set up terrain.

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-16-14, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
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I thought that was the case. I will let the guy know for his next game. He may not be that happy, but its only the difference between 4+ and 3+ cover save cheers
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-16-14, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ntaw View Post
The rules for placing gun emplacements in the new Stronghold Assault book states that they gun needs to be within 6" of the fortification if was bought for. Specific wording/thread here. I would wager that if you really wanted to place your QG so that it gains cover from the ruin you could provided the gun was still within 6" of it's defense line. Just remember that you may also end up providing your enemy with cover as well since you could potentially be limiting your own LoS.
We thought this, and we decided on a house rule that it will no longer be able to be placed within ruins.

HOWEVER, the lad in question then queried whether the ruin could be fired OVER if it was small enough, nullifying the cover save issue. If the ruin in itself is a wall of some kind (e.g. collapsed manufactorum portion or Cities of Death scenery kit) that is a standalone piece of cover, and the gun is within the 6" range of the ADL, then could this allow for a 3+ cover save (assuming it is a bolstered ruin). Is this correct? He stated that if it was the case then all infantry firing over barricades, as a result, gave cover saves to their targets by firing from behind cover. I can see this being a particular issue.

I have read the cover saves section of the rulebook and this issue is not coverd. The only related rule states that if any model is more than 25% obscured it receives a cover save.

I personally think he is clutching at straws, and that he should be grateful of the 4+ cover save, but it is an interesting point to be had
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-16-14, 04:42 PM
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The issue is covered by the line of sight rules. If the target models are sufficiently obscured they can get a cover save from the intermediate terrain, if not they get nothing.

You'll have to look at what's shooting and from where to determine things. And if that's still an issue, hit them with Ordnance weapons so the wall becomes a non-factor.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-16-14, 05:01 PM Thread Starter
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I wasnt playing him. I kinda felt sorry for the ork player as his combatant, but was funny seeing his forces command the quad gun and turn it on the flyers of the enemy. We all laughed as a stormraven was blown out of the sky, falling straight on top of one of his rhinos. Hilarity ensued when it suffered an Explodes! result, causing his command squad to suffer 5 wounds, and 4 failed saves. Should have brought an apothecary lol

Oh, just remebered another problem he suffered. His quad gun has skyfire and interceptor, and he used it to fire at some standard boyz out of cover. Could he use the standard ballistic skill, as is explained in the book? It was fiercely debated, and was agreed upon, but I am still unsure.

Cheers for the assistance.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-16-14, 05:13 PM
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If the gun has a BS you use that, otherwise you use the BS of the firer.

For the Quadgun it has no BS normally, so you'd use the BS of whatever Ork (or Grot) was manning it instead.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-16-14, 06:33 PM Thread Starter
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If the gun has a BS you use that, otherwise you use the BS of the firer.

For the Quadgun it has no BS normally, so you'd use the BS of whatever Ork (or Grot) was manning it instead.
Cheers for the help.

I was pretty sure it depends on the BS of the firer, but with the two linked rules there were a couple of people still uncertain how to "read" the 'all other targets' section of the interceptor rule.

Thanks for the clarification
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-16-14, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
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Cheers for the help.

I was pretty sure it depends on the BS of the firer, but with the two linked rules there were a couple of people still uncertain how to "read" the 'all other targets' section of the interceptor rule.

Thanks for the clarification
Interceptor allows it to shoot incoming targets (which skyfire allows you to shoot oncoming flyers at full BS), as well as shoot non-skimmer/flyer models at full BS. So it's still the firer's BS, just at no penalty regardless of what they shoot at in this case.
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