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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-17-14, 03:19 AM Thread Starter
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Default Why no shooting at Close Combat Engagments?

Ok this really pisses me off, I have a big as Nid on my squad, I can't tell the difference between the models but it had wings and landed on my vets holding an objective. Anyway THREE turns of close combat and I can't fire at that asshole, my guys passed their leadership check every time and couldn't run. WHY CAN'T YOU FIRE AT SHIT IN CC? Pissed me off and I just had to bend over and take it! Sorry for the language but it still pisses me off and it's 7 hours later.

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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-17-14, 04:18 AM
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Our weapons are useless USR ... not sure what page it is on in the BRB.
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-17-14, 07:04 AM
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Fluffwise because even for Guard, shooting at your own units is considered bad form.

Mechanically, because being able to proportionally randomise hits between multiple units from potentially multiple armies based on unit and model size in a D6 system is pretty damn hard.

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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-17-14, 07:30 AM
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People are already complaning CC is nerfed. Can you imagine fighting eldar or tau (the two most complained about armies) - you weather a storm of fire just to get into cc. At which point they just keep on shooting you. CC armies would never win again, hell would freeze over and the world would end...
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-17-14, 07:32 AM
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Besides, the devastation you could wreak on a unit (that is forces to clump up, due to close combat) with a large blast? Just plain nasty!

In all seriousness, not being able to fire at a unit that is in close combat does make sense from a game-play perspective. I realize it can be annoying in a situation as the one described, but there are simply too many situations where it could be exploited if you were to shoot into a close combat blob. It would also further enhance shooting, in a edition that is already very shooty-enhanced.

The other player simply tied down your unit, and did so successfully. It's a valid tactic that can be used. Orks can do the same with a Wraithknight etc, where "If you can't kill it, occupy it!" is a very popular tactic.
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-17-14, 01:39 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sethis View Post
Fluffwise because even for Guard, shooting at your own units is considered bad form.
I would disagree there Man-power is the guards greatest weapons, and when you have Chenov send in the next wave, basically killing a squad over and over is ok by his standards I say the guard should be able to shoot a battle cannon into a CC squad. Even better if a US missile, in today's world, can be fired into a window 1000 miles away then three twin-linked lascannons from a Vendetta should be able to hit a big ass Nid eating some guardsmen. Maybe they need to fix this for guard only My venting is over, thanks for bringing me back to reality fellas!

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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-17-14, 01:59 PM
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Could be a special rule for guard 'plenty more where they came from'. Let you shoot into CC but basically guarantee the death of the guard squad whatever the outcome of the shooting. So if you miss then the enemy is out of CC and ready to attack again amd your unit is 'poof' gone. You'd be able to tarpit units and drop pie plates on them, but each time you did would cost you a whole unit.

In such case you could even call it 'final protective fire' where basically the poor bloody guardsmen call in a strike on themselves, but have it only apply to artillery/ordnance/main weapons on vehicles.

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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-17-14, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OIIIIIIO View Post
Our weapons are useless USR ... not sure what page it is on in the BRB.
Wouldn't work cus marines have grenades so can wound it, and therefore can't runaway.

I'm not sure if it is still in the marines 'dex, but does Combat tactics not allow you to chose to fail morale in combat??

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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-17-14, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falcoso View Post
I'm not sure if it is still in the marines 'dex, but does Combat tactics not allow you to chose to fail morale in combat??
Alas, no, which is a shame as that was an awesome rule. It's been replaced with the new Chapter Tactics. Dark Angels double fail, since they can't use Our Weapons Are Useless against, say, a Soul Grinder or Knight because a. they have Krak Grenades and b. they have Grim Resolve, meaning they can never fall back anyway. Also, they usually pass their leadership against Mephiston or a Dreadknight because they're still fucking Leadership 8 on the two dudes left alive. Grim Resolve is a fucking liability, thanks GW for making all the other Marines better (except Blood Angels, but nobody plays them anymore right?).

Mainly, it's a balance issue, because shooting into combat makes dominant shooting armies even more dominant.

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Last edited by MidnightSun; 02-17-14 at 04:38 PM.
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-17-14, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieHWT View Post
I would disagree there Man-power is the guards greatest weapons, and when you have Chenov send in the next wave, basically killing a squad over and over is ok by his standards I say the guard should be able to shoot a battle cannon into a CC squad. Even better if a US missile, in today's world, can be fired into a window 1000 miles away then three twin-linked lascannons from a Vendetta should be able to hit a big ass Nid eating some guardsmen. Maybe they need to fix this for guard only My venting is over, thanks for bringing me back to reality fellas!
Depends entirely on the Guard - for example in the Gaunt's Ghosts series then commanders who fired on friendly units have been alternately shot, punched out, or otherwise disciplined.

90% of people think they are above average.

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