...this is going to be a pretty big post pulling rules from multiple sections and with me trying to make clear, but well thought out arguments for everyone to follow along with.
let's start with the text on the combat familiar. " A model with a combat familiar makes two additional str 4, ap- attacks... Pretty clean cut, right? it's horrible. I thought so too, for a long time, until one day when I was furiously flipping through the close combat (Starts on Pg 23 of the BRB
and weapons sections (Close Combat Weapons are on Pg 51
of the rulebook.
See, I was trying to find a way for my dp with the black mace to use a normal CCW
on the turn he charges, swap to the mace on my opponents, sweep them on that turn, and hop scotch through the enemy army. I can almost do it, but he doesn't have a ccw to swap to.
Models only get one for free if they don't have a melee weapon.
Ok, so lets start with CSM codex entry of the Demon Prince (pg 94), and get to the important parts.
May take items from the Chaos Rewards and/or Chaos Artefacts sections of the wargear list.
now lets skip to said list and look the item in particular: The Black Mace
Ok, I see that I swap the one and only generic CCW that I have for the black mace. Gotcha. So far so good.
A model can replace one weapon with one of the following. Only one of each Chaos Artefact may be taken per army.
Now let's look at the Combat Familiar.
Ok, so the Combat Familiar grants two Strength 4 AP- attacks, that the user can apply. It does not state anywhere that the combat familiar is a close combat weapon, or is to be applied in any sense is a weapon at all.
Originally Posted by CSM Codex Page 67, Chaos Rewards
A model with a combat familiar makes two additional Strength 4 AP- Melee attacks. The combat familiar is always assumed to be on the same base as its master. If you wish to representit separately you can. However, the model itself plays no part in the game; if the model gets in the way, simply move it to one side.
So let's all agree that the combat familiar is not a piece of "weaponry", either shooting or Melee, ok?
...The BRB says that in the close combat section, when it comes for a models turn to strike blows, they MAKE attacks, which roll to wound using their own strength, but may be modified by the weapon they are wielding. In addition, the "more then one weapon" section in weapons (Pg 51)
out of the BRB describes that models with more then one melee weapon must pick one weapon, and use it for all of their attacks. They can't mix and match weapons, not use it for some, whatever. They have to go all in with it.
Ok...besides the fact that I have already completely read the whole thread I am starting to wonder where the hell you have started to go; since the Demon Prince only has one "close Combat Weapon" (Rules found two paragraphs higher than the "more than one weapon" sectiion on page 51) and we have already concluded that the combat familiar is NOT a close combat weapon, since it does not decree any such thing in its item entry.
And now, the cheese unveiling. Combat Familiars are basically +2 attacks on most of our models. The combat familiar text says that the model with the familiar makes these extra attacks.
And unlike hammer of wrath, or vector strike, or magma cutters, or terror from the deeps, or any other rule that gives free hits, it doesn't tell you how to resolve it
. On top, they aren't hits. They're attacks. And, it uses the same wording that the basic rulebook uses for models in cc (make attacks)...
Sorry, have to interrupt here, where the hell is this area that "uses the same wording that the basic rulebook uses for models in cc (make attacks)" the only reference are that makes any sense in the "number of attacks" area on page 24; which then just continues on to teach how to use the Weapon Skill (WS) chart, of which I assume we all know how to use by now.
..Grounding the argument with models with multiple melee weapons (I couldn't find a section that said models with one melee weapon have to use the weapon.
It seems it's inferred, so let's not go there for now, and keep things rules grounded), they have to pick a weapon and modify all of their attacks with it.
So we've got huron...he makes 3 str 4 attacks that move up to strength 6, ap3, shred armorbane whatever. The two attacks the familiar grants have to be modified the same way. The rules say so; it's actually illegal to not modify them that way.
What do you all think?
Honestly, you answer your own answer two paragraphs above;
. Demon Princes with the Black Mace only have one weapon in their wargear slot - The Black Mace.
they have to pick a weapon
Note: if your answer is "it's not rules as intended, they intended for it to be str 4 and ap -", my answer to you is maybe that phil kelley intended for there to be a way for chaos lords and the like to get two more attacks
, but couldn't find a good price because demon princes can get them too. So he wrote an upgrade at a flat price, and worded it so that a model like a chaos lord makes two attacks at his printed strength which then get modified like his base attacks, and made sure the wording matched the basic rulebook so they could function like a printed +2 attacks, but it's also worded ingeniously so that demon princes don't get the same free +2, so you can't smash and still get 5 attacks all the time, or 7 at str 6. Either is just as plausible, and mine actually suggests that the writer knows what they are doing. Because arguing that the writers don't know what they are doing and you do is silly, and only viable in cases of game breakdown, let's keep this to rules as written