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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-07-14, 05:37 PM
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I'm going to say that the misplaced mawloc CANNOT be used against the tyranid player, and here's why.

The TFtD rule says it may choose to deep strike onto a point occupied by model (friend or foe). It does not say that it may be deployed on another model. This is a big distinction, as the inability to deploy on other models is the reason it mishaps if it's attacks don't clear enough space, as per the Deep Strike Mishaps rules on pg. 36 of the BRB

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If any models in a deep striking unit cannot be deployed, because at least one model would land partially or fully off the table, in impassible terrain, on top of a friendly model, or on top of or within 1" of an enemy model, something has gone wrong...
So just to clarify again, the mishap happens because the Mawloc cannot deploy.

If we then look at the Misplaced result on the mishap table, it says:

Quote:
Your opponent may deploy the unit anywhere on the table...
.

Valid deployment does not allow you to be placed on another model, Mawloc or no.

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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-07-14, 08:20 PM
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But is the enemy "deploying it" or "attempting to deploy it"?

Following your logic those are different actions instead of different tenses.

Isn't the Mawloc's initial every the tyranid player deploying it? And if it can't enter play, then it must be deployed again.

Or am I misunderstanding?

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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-07-14, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiveMinder View Post
I'm going to say that the misplaced mawloc CANNOT be used against the tyranid player, and here's why.

The TFtD rule says it may choose to deep strike onto a point occupied by model (friend or foe). It does not say that it may be deployed on another model. This is a big distinction, as the inability to deploy on other models is the reason it mishaps if it's attacks don't clear enough space, as per the Deep Strike Mishaps rules on pg. 36 of the BRB



So just to clarify again, the mishap happens because the Mawloc cannot deploy.

If we then look at the Misplaced result on the mishap table, it says:

.

Valid deployment does not allow you to be placed on another model, Mawloc or no.
A valid deployment for a Mawloc is anywhere on the board that isn't within a building or on a floor it cannot reach nor fit on. Another thing you're deepstriking on a point, not a model, hence why the blast marker center does not need to be place entirely over a model.

When the creature mishaps your opponent follows the same rule due to the fact that the Mawlocs terror from the deepstrike automatically overrides how deepstrike normally works. Your opponent nominates a point underneath one of your units. This is still a valid deepstrike point as terror of the deep clearly states, then you go through the process again of large blast after large blast.

The glaring loophole comes when the Mawloc mishaps after a mishap? Who takes control after a failed mishap? Does it keep going and going until it finally emerges?

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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-07-14, 10:15 PM
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Deep strike happens like this:

1) place a model from the unit on the battlefield (this is the 'point') referred to in the mawloc rules.
2) roll for scatter.
3) deploy the unit at this final location
4) if the unit is a mawloc, make its TFtD attacks if there are models in the way that would cause a mishap.
5) if the unit can't be deployed, it mishaps.

The misplaced result picks up at step 3 of the cycle, where as the mawloc's ability applies to step 1, the initial placement. The reference to valid deep strike formation has nothing to do with the mawloc ability, but rather is referring to a unit needing to deploy in b2b, in concentric rings around the initially placed model.

In the misplaced result said, "place a model anywhere on the table ... Without rolling for scatter", I'd agree with you, but it doesn't, it says "deploy the unit anywhere on the table..." which is explicitly different from initial model placement for deep striking.

The long and short of it is that "place" and "deploy" are two separate game terms, and the Mawloc's rule affects placement, not deployment.

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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-07-14, 10:34 PM
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I ask you then, what rules are it following to get onto the board? Deepstriking. Until it is on the board the unit is still deepstriking to get onto the board.

Its not outflanking and coming from the sides, its not coming from on-going reserves where they appear on a friendly board edge. They are still coming in anywhere on the board when the mishap which is still a deepstrike. Therefore it still follows all the rules that deepstriking dictates, including Terror From the Deep.

And from your previous post, all a mishap placed by the enemy just removes point 2 of the steps that need to be followed when deepstriking.

Even though you walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I'm there waiting... and your not coming out alive!

Last edited by Igni Ferroque; 02-07-14 at 10:37 PM.
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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-08-14, 12:53 AM
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I'm following the rules for deep striking to get it on the board. As I said, there is a difference between 'deployed' and 'placed'. The mawloc rules let you place it on other troops, then it scatters and deploys like any other deep stickers with the caveat that it gets a chance to clear out a spot for itself before it mishaps.

The mawloc lets you 'place' it on other troops, but nothing can ever 'deploy' on top of other units.

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