Witchfire and Deny the Witch - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
40k Rules Discussion Post any Warhammer 40k rules queries and discussions here.

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old 06-09-13, 06:46 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4
Reputation: 1
Default Witchfire and Deny the Witch

Recently, at our local 40k shop there has been a dispute over witchfire abilities and deny the witch. The argument that has arisen is that when a psyker like Fateweaver manifests a witchfire (i.e. Flickering Fire of Tzeentch) he is targeting himself with the psychic ability and if the test is passed he then can shoot the weapons granted by the psychic power. Based on this reasoning the argument concludes that you cannot take a deny the witch save against witchfire abilities because the unit that is shot at isn't targeted by the ability.

I argue that the witchfire ability does target an enemy unit and they are allowed to take a deny the witch save. This is due to the order of manifesting psychic powers on page 67 in the small rulebook; (1) Expend Warp Charge, (2) Declare Target, (3) Take Psychic test, (4) Deny the Witch, (5) Resolve Psychic Power. Since there is only one point where the psyker can declare a target if he doesn't choose an enemy model/unit it would have no effect. Additionally, I argued that since in the 40k rulebook errata beam psychic powers confer a deny the witch save then all witchfire abilities should as well.

These arguments have reached a stalemate and I need some outside views on the situation.

2nd Question: Based on the wording in the small rulebook on page 69 for witchfires "If a witchfire does not list a subtype, or simply describes itself as a psychic shooting attack, use the rules given above to resolve it." Then would I be able to take a deny the witch save against Blood Angel abilities that list themselves as psychic shooting attacks (i.e. Blood Boil, Fear of the Dark, etc.).
ZzTEMPLARsS is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old 06-09-13, 07:13 AM
ZOMGZOR CUSTOM USER TITLE
 
scscofield's Avatar
scscofield's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY
Posts: 6,195
Reputation: 56
Default

If it is a psychic shooting attack you can deny. If it is instead a blessing like Guide then you can not. A blessing is a buff to the unit not a attack. Want to say all witch fires would be deny'able

http://i.imgur.com/aPfHUHy.gif?1




scscofield is offline  
post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old 06-09-13, 07:17 AM
Token Trans Mod
 
Zion's Avatar
Zion's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: On the internet.
Posts: 6,385
Reputation: 103
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scscofield View Post
If it is a psychic shooting attack you can deny. If it is instead a blessing like Guide then you can not. A blessing is a buff to the unit not a attack. Want to say all witch fires would be deny'able
I'd have to dig out my book but I want to say that any psychic power than can target an enemy unit (or hit them with an AOE, ect) can be denied. Only Blessings (which work on friendlies) can not.
Zion is offline  
 
post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old 06-09-13, 07:45 AM
Senior Member
 
Archon Dan's Avatar
Archon Dan's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 1,825
Reputation: 17
Default

The two above me are correct. Anything but a Blessing gets a DtW roll. So all Maledictions, Witchfires and ... Psychic shooting attacks ... can be denied. As for your competitors' argument; Psychic Powers do not generate a weapon. They are channeling Warp energy into a destructive force, not something to make a destructive force. Commendable, but false.

"Fetch me another plaything. This one seems to have broken." -Urien Rakarth

Space Marine- "This planet is ours, witch."
Eldar- "No ... This planet is theirs ..."
Archon Dan is offline  
post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old 06-09-13, 11:19 AM
Banned
Magpie_Oz's Flag is: Australia
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Not every shadow, but any shadow
Posts: 7,889
Reputation: 74
Default

Yep +1 from me.

If a psychic power targets you, you can Deny the Witch it.

Witchfires require to be fired at a target, as opposed to activating a force weapon which is a buff to the weapon, a "blessing" if you like.
Magpie_Oz is offline  
post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old 06-09-13, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4
Reputation: 1
Default

Thank you guys for the responses, hopefully my opponent will listen to this reasoning.
ZzTEMPLARsS is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Warhammer 40K > 40k Rules Discussion

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome