Nope, we're just pointing out the rules over and over in the hope that you'll catch on at some point.
Avoid this, as it makes people less open to being pursuaded. No one is made more
willing to agree with you by being called dumb.
i understand exactly what you are saying... you are just wrong.
TftD is not a shooting attack, does not follow the rules for a shooting attack, is not resolved as a shooting attack and in fact has nothing to do with shooting at all... you may have the belief that anything that isn't combat is a shooting attack, but that is rubbish.
You claim to understand what he's saying, but then say "...does not follow the rules for a shooting attack, is not resolved as a shooting attack and in fact has nothing to do with shooting at all." Well, as Zion has pointed out multiple times, Terror from the Deep does
have shooting-like characteristics. You can take cover saves against it, and it is resolved using the Large Blast template with hits being allocated and resolved the same as Blast weapons. Both of these are almost exclusively in the realm of Shooting; the only exceptions are other special rules, and they're also blurred as to whether they're shooting.
You cannot find rules that effect 'shooting' and 'weapons' and apply them to things which are neither of those just because their effects are similar. It would be like claiming CSM have ATSKNF because they are both not Tau... not being combat does not make something shooting.
A lot of things I find wrong with this analysis. There is nothing to stop us from using rules from shooting and applying them to shooting-like special rules, and indeed doing this "rules-transplant" is necessary when there are gaps in the rules, like when they don't cover the effect of a special rule against flyers for example. This is how we determined where to allocate wounds from a Vector Strike, after all; by taking the allocation rules that govern the Shooting and
Assault phase and using them for a Movement phase attack, we determined that they would be allocated to models closest to the Flying Monstrous Creature at the end of the move (as that was when the attack is resolved).
I'm not sure what you meant with your example involving ATSKNF, Codex Space Marines and Tau. I mean literally, I don't know what you were trying to convey.
Zion's argument was not "because it isn't combat it must be shooting"; his argument was since this special rule's resolvement has more in common with shooting then melee, the necessary "rules-transplant" to cover what's missing should come from the Shooting section. Kudos to Zion for continuing this discussion in a civil manner in the face of many people misrepresenting his argument. All I seemed to get from every other poster was that no one had considered Zion's points when making their own interpretation. My approach with posts I disagree with is to quote it, and in between the various points the person makes, I make my rebuttal. That way, it is both clear I am reading the argument and what my counterargument is to the various points. Try it and see if it doesn't help to speedily resolve an issue.
Now in my opinion, RAW you can hit a Zooming Flyer with this attack. It is never specifically stated to be a Shooting Attack; it is never stated to be any kind of attack, which would have been nice when determining how it is resolved, but I digress. The only thing that would dissallow it is if it was a Shooting attack that does not use BS. It is not a Shooting Attack, and thus will hit the Zooming Flyer.
HOWEVER, this RAW technicality will not last, because it is clearly against RAI and will be addressed in the Rulebook or Tyranids FAQ. (With a little help from my updated FAQ/Errata Candidates
- please visit and send to GW, every e-mail increases chances of resolution.) There are many indications that Terror from the Deep is meant to be resolved like shooting.
- You may take cover saves against this kind of attack, just like in Shooting.
- A Flying Monstrous Creature that makes a Vector Strike counts as having fired a weapon in the shooting phase. This is another example of a Movement phase attack, and it is being treated as a shooting attack - even though the rule represents what is probably a close combat attack.
- A Flyer that makes a bombing run is considered to have fired one weapon in it's Shooting phase. Another example of a Movement phase attack being resolved like a shooting attack.
- The Harpy in Codex: Tyranids may make a movement phase attack called Spore Mine Cysts, where it drops a cluster of Spore Mines. This is resolved "... exactly as if the Harpy were firing a barrage weapon at that spot..." and the FAQ clarifies that this is resolved like a barrage attack.
To conclude, RAW you can smack down that flyer due to vagaries in an ill-defined rule, but the RAI is clearly meant to be otherwise.