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post #171 of 199 (permalink) Old 07-13-12, 08:03 PM
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post #172 of 199 (permalink) Old 07-14-12, 01:27 AM
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Now here is a question that I am wondering ... If you were to make your own Dante with a different weapon like say a Staff. Would you have a problem with that? It would make him hit at STR6 and AP4 going at I6.

Before anyone says "But it is the AXE Mortalis!" ... it is just a MC PW. If you want to consider it just a PW to make it an axe that strikes at I1 then I can not see this as a problem.

Reason that I ask is because when I first got into the hobby I made my own Shrike because I really did not like the model that they had for him.
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post #173 of 199 (permalink) Old 07-14-12, 01:34 AM
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I was wondering that too, I have modelled mine with a big spiky mace from a beastman, which would now count as a power maul. I'm not really bothered at the moment, but should I start playing again it could cause problems.

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post #174 of 199 (permalink) Old 07-14-12, 02:25 AM
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Well, technically speaking...I suppose you could.
It would be pretty cheeky though. technically spoeaking you cannot change a unique character's wargear...and if the wargear said 'power axe' you'd be totally stuck...

But it DOES just say 'power weapon'
That power weapon is defined by the model.
If you change the model...

Cheeky, but technically correct.
Which is the best kind of correct.

That's why they went through and explicitly stated all crozius were power mauls because without that bit people could start giving chaplains axes and swords instead

Problem solved, Dante Fans, break out your nippers. "It's my sword, I call it the Axe Mortalis...it's a metaphor for, uh...choppiness."

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post #175 of 199 (permalink) Old 07-14-12, 03:05 AM
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I will have to practice my disapproving stare for people who do that.



There.... I got it down.

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post #176 of 199 (permalink) Old 07-14-12, 05:04 AM
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So here's a fun one: Mace of Valaan from the Sisters of Battle White Dwarf Codex:

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The Mace of Valaan is a power weapon. In addition, any model that suffers an unsaved Wound from the Mace of Valaan is reduced to Initiative 1 until the end of the following player's turn.
It's not covered in the errata, and it's effects are the same as Concussive but don't share the name of the rule. Would you treat this as a Power Mace or an Unusual Power Weapon?

Personally I'd like to say Power Mace, but it seems like one of those grey areas since the effect of the weapon is covered by a Special Rule.

I'm chalking this one up to needing an Errata to work correctly, but I wanted to pick some people's brains about it since I ran across it while working on the Sisters of Battle Tactica.
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post #177 of 199 (permalink) Old 07-14-12, 08:29 AM
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PG56 BAs codex under wargear

"Weapons and equipment that can be used by more than one type of model or unit are detailed here, while equipment that is unique to a single model or unit (including wargear carried by a named special characters) is often detailed in the appropriate entry in the angelic host section."

The Axe Mortalis... detailed in the angelic host section under a special character named dante.

Grey knight codex says a similar thing, and cites Crows sword as unique, even though its just a CCW.

Space marine codex as well, pg 97

imperial guard pg 29

codex dark angels pg 48 same thing

I think that makes it pretty clear that in the case of GW and warhammer 40k, they define "unique" rules for a weapon as being listed in a unit entry specifically with a unit in a codex. The actual rules it has doesn't matter only that its listed with a unit in the unit section. Looks like a case of the game designer using game jargon that players might not use.

Thats why The blood crozius was amended because otherwise it would have been a "unique" power weapon.

It takes a pack of Wolves to tree a Lion... here is hopping the new DA codex reflects that.
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post #178 of 199 (permalink) Old 07-14-12, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrell View Post
PG56 BAs codex under wargear

"Weapons and equipment that can be used by more than one type of model or unit are detailed here, while equipment that is unique to a single model or unit (including wargear carried by a named special characters) is often detailed in the appropriate entry in the angelic host section."

The Axe Mortalis... detailed in the angelic host section under a special character named dante.

Grey knight codex says a similar thing, and cites Crows sword as unique, even though its just a CCW.

Space marine codex as well, pg 97

imperial guard pg 29

codex dark angels pg 48 same thing

I think that makes it pretty clear that in the case of GW and warhammer 40k, they define "unique" rules for a weapon as being listed in a unit entry specifically with a unit in a codex. The actual rules it has doesn't matter only that its listed with a unit in the unit section. Looks like a case of the game designer using game jargon that players might not use.

Thats why The blood crozius was amended because otherwise it would have been a "unique" power weapon.
Your mixing the issue now. Nowhere in the rules for either Force or Power Weapons does it mention "unique weapons". They mention "unique special rules".

Dante's Axe (since it keeps coming up) is a "unique weapon" (being a named weapon belonging to a Unique Character"), individualized to Dante. HOWEVER, it does NOT have "unique special rules" thus does not get lumped into being an "unusual power weapon".

It's clear that the Developers didn't mean "unique weapons" or "weapons belonging to unique" units when there are NON-Unique models affected by these rules (because you know, they may have decided to use those phrases rather than "unique special rules").

To give you an example of why your interpretation doesn't work: The Mistress of Repentence for example is a NON-Unique Model but she has Unique Special Rules on her Neural Whips. If the rules for Unusual Power Weapon didn't extend to cover NON-Unique models, then there would be no classification for her weapon as it is a whip (note the lack of entry for whips). THAT would be in direct violation of the fact that ALL power weapons fall into one of five categories.

You keep trying to turn this into some kind of solution where you get to be right on this one. Here's a hint: unless you change your point of view and agree that Unique Weapons aren't IMMEDIATELY "Unusual Power Weapons" just because, then you'll still be wrong. The ONLY way you'll be right is if GW puts into the FAQ/Errata.
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post #179 of 199 (permalink) Old 07-14-12, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrell View Post
PG56 BAs codex under wargear

"Weapons and equipment that can be used by more than one type of model or unit are detailed here, while equipment that is unique to a single model or unit (including wargear carried by a named special characters) is often detailed in the appropriate entry in the angelic host section."
You do realise you are arguing wording across two editions of the game now. That doesn't really work as the Blood Angel codex was written for 5th edition's rules, not sixth. You might be able to say the GK codex was written with 6th in mind but it was still written with 5th ed's rules. Even the Necron codex recieved errata because of rule changes.

In short, a 5th ed codex that says "unique" cannot be used as evidence for a 6th ed rule. The word did not have the same affect and was not written with the same purpose.

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post #180 of 199 (permalink) Old 07-14-12, 01:38 PM
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again, it doesn't matter if the WEAPON is unique, it has to have unique RULES and absolutely nothing you've said has ever demonstrated any unique close combat rules for the
axe
yes, the axe is unique
no, it is not unusual

-=============]xxxxo Galahad oxxxx[=============-
Check out the Heresy Combat Calculator -- MathHammer Made Easy!



Codex: Angels Errant. Read it, please.
Heresy Forum Rules -- Read them, damnit!
Reporting: When/How/Why -- Read that too!
"...remember the Golden Rule: Chill out, they're only plastic spacemen!" -Brother Jazzman
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