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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-08-12, 07:45 PM Thread Starter
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6th edition ruined many players strategies. Why should Necron be immune. Especially when its a very cheap wargear that makes necrons nearly unbeatable in challenges. It's effectively an "I win" button in challenges.
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-08-12, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Necrosis View Post
6th edition ruined many players strategies. Why should Necron be immune. Especially when its a very cheap wargear that makes necrons nearly unbeatable in challenges. It's effectively an "I win" button in challenges.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-08-12, 11:41 PM
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MSS would work in a challenge, that is quite plane. If they happen in the same sub-phase then the order is flexible.
The Necron player can wait until after a challenge is issued (or not) before using the wargear. Otherwise the Necron player could use the MSS and prevent a challenge from happening because they were already engaging another model during the sub-phase. You can't have it both ways.
If you fight a challenge then you face the MSS. Simple as.

EDIT: just to comment on the exception rule on p9; it says that actions that players have to do at the same time are done in the order that the player whose turn it is decides. But MSS does not have to be done, it is optional, and the Necrons choose to do or not do - so the order of it can not be dictated by the non-controlling player.

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Last edited by darklove; 07-08-12 at 11:50 PM.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-08-12, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklove View Post
MSS would work in a challenge, that is quite plane. If they happen in the same sub-phase then the order is flexible.
The Necron player can wait until after a challenge is issued (or not) before using the wargear. Otherwise the Necron player could use the MSS and prevent a challenge from happening because they were already engaging another model during the sub-phase. You can't have it both ways.
If you fight a challenge then you face the MSS. Simple as.

EDIT: just to comment on the exception rule on p9; it says that actions that players have to do at the same time are done in the order that the player whose turn it is decides. But MSS does not have to be done, it is optional, and the Necrons choose to do or not do - so the order of it can not be dictated by the non-controlling player.

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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-09-12, 12:03 AM Thread Starter
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Just because you have a choice of to activate it does not mean the order changes of when it happens. The Necron FAQ is clear, it happens at the very start of the Fighting sub phase. No where does it say you can wait to use it later. As for your comment about him being engage with another model that argument is not true. If I do impact hits with a character does that mean my character can't be challenge or issue a challenge?
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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-09-12, 11:04 AM
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Ok so lets assume that the Necron with the MSS is charged. In the sub-phase the enemy player gets to decide the order of things that must be done at the start of the sub-phase. Will he challenge? If he doesn't then the Necron player can challenge in return, and then use MSS. If he does challenge then the Necron player can accept the challenge and use MSS.

What is the problem exactly?

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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-09-12, 12:01 PM
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I dont think he wants the Necros to us MsS... thats the crux of it ;)
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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-09-12, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by darklove View Post
Ok so lets assume that the Necron with the MSS is charged. In the sub-phase the enemy player gets to decide the order of things that must be done at the start of the sub-phase. Will he challenge? If he doesn't then the Necron player can challenge in return, and then use MSS. If he does challenge then the Necron player can accept the challenge and use MSS.

What is the problem exactly?
On reading the relevant rules, both declaring Challenges and the MSS occur at the start of the Fight sub-phase. The player whose turn it is decides on the order of these two events.

If it's the turn of the non-Necron player, he can choose to have the MSS resolve first. Note that the use of the MSS is not optional. Even in the case of an optional piece of equipment or rule, however, the player who's turn it is can decide the order- he first says 'declare whether or not you are using your xx' then decides whether or not to Challenge.

This allows the non-Necron player to decide whether or not to Challenge, or who with, based on who the MSS affect and whether they resist them.

If the Necron player Assaults, he gets to choose the order. In this case he will probably want to declare a Challenge, then use the MSS. However, he might decide to do it the other way round- say to MSS a rank-and-file model, then Challenge to avoid being hit by the rest of the squad, and this is perfectly acceptable.

If there is any grey area here, it's whether a player can choose to have the MSS resolve between the player whose turn it is deciding not to Challenge, and the other player deciding whether or not to. I read it as both decisions being part of the same 'Issuing A Challenge' event, which would mean he could not- the MSS would resolve before both players declared Challenges, or after.

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Last edited by Majere613; 07-09-12 at 01:15 PM.
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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-13-12, 10:48 PM
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Another question I have is this.

The wording of mindshackle scarabs is that the victim strikes at his own unit. He is of course a member of his unit. However, because it doesn't say the models have to be in base contact with the controller of the scarabs, does he lash out at himself or his unit?

For instance, say I charge Ghazghkull with a Destroyer Lord with MSS. I challenge him and he accepts, he makes the 3d6 LD roll, fails, and we get to I step 1. Does he punch himself in the face, or does he punch the nearest Meganob into pulp?

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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-13-12, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Iron Angel View Post
Another question I have is this.

The wording of mindshackle scarabs is that the victim strikes at his own unit. He is of course a member of his unit. However, because it doesn't say the models have to be in base contact with the controller of the scarabs, does he lash out at himself or his unit?

For instance, say I charge Ghazghkull with a Destroyer Lord with MSS. I challenge him and he accepts, he makes the 3d6 LD roll, fails, and we get to I step 1. Does he punch himself in the face, or does he punch the nearest Meganob into pulp?
In Challenges you are considered to be in base contact with only the other Character. The only target for you to punch is yourself, and not your unit.

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