ICs: Infiltrate, Scout and Outflank? - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
40k Rules Discussion Post any Warhammer 40k rules queries and discussions here.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-05-12, 01:59 AM Thread Starter
Banned
MadCowCrazy's Flag is: Aaland
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Burning Depths of Hell
Posts: 2,452
Reputation: 11
Default ICs: Infiltrate, Scout and Outflank?

I'm basically trying to figure out if an IC can join a unit of Infiltratiors or Scouts and then outflank?

Infiltrate p.38:
Units that contain at least one model with this special rule...
Having Infiltrate also confers the Outflank special rule to units of Infiltrators that are kept as Reserves.
An IC without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment.

Here is the question regarding Infiltrate, it says "during deployment".
Does this include Outflank or do they mean during the infiltration deployment?
Reason I dont get this is because if you chose to simply deploy them normally, like any other unit inside your own deployment why wouldn't an IC be able to join them?
Rule says: "Infiltrators can be set up anywhere on the table that is more than 12" from any enemy unit..."
Does the "can" in this case mean I dont have to deploy them this way or is it simply stating it's a possibility?
Does Infiltrate mean I CAN NOT deploy the unit normally? That I HAVE TO use the rules for Infiltrators even if I deploy them in my own deployment zone?

Quote:
Units that contain at least one model
with this special rule are deployed last,
after all other units (friend and foe)
have been deployed. ff both sides have
Infiltrators, the players roll-off and the
winner decides who goes first, then
alternate deploying these units.
Scout:
Quote:
After both sides have deployed (including
Infiltrators), but before the first player
begins his first turn, a unit containing at
least one model with this special rule can
choose to redeploy.
With scout it clearly states that you "can choose" to use this special rule, Infiltrate doesn't state that you have a choice?


Scouts p.41 and IC:
Same as Infiltrate, a unit containing at least one model...
No mention about ICs not being able to join them, before, after or during deployment.
Does this mean I can join a scouting unit with an IC and do the Scout Redeployment with them?
Does this mean I can join a unit of Scouts and Outflank together with them?

Outflank p.40 :
"...unit that contains at least one model with this special rule..."
I see no restrictions here but can't think of a single unit that has just Outflank. All I know of have Scout or Infiltrate.
MadCowCrazy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-05-12, 02:09 AM
Banned
Magpie_Oz's Flag is: Australia
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Not every shadow, but any shadow
Posts: 7,889
Reputation: 74
Default

Seems pretty clear that you don't have to infiltrate if you don't want to.

Also clear that regardless and IC without Infiltrate cannot join a unit that is going to Infiltrate but can join a unit to has Infiltrate but is not going to Infiltrate. The key here is that the IC cannot join "Infiltrators" i.e. One who is infiltrating.

I can't see any problem with a non-scout IC becoming a scout by joining the scouts.

Outflank is a deployment ability granted by having Infiltrate or Scout from what I read

Last edited by Magpie_Oz; 07-05-12 at 02:13 AM.
Magpie_Oz is offline  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-05-12, 02:28 AM
Senior Member
 
Salahaldin's Avatar
Salahaldin's Flag is: Canada
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Georgetown, ON
Posts: 584
Reputation: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadCowCrazy View Post
I'm basically trying to figure out if an IC can join a unit of Infiltratiors or Scouts and then outflank?

Infiltrate p.38:
Units that contain at least one model with this special rule...
It goes on to say: "...are deployed last, after all other units (friend and foe) have been deployed." So you have to have already deployed your Independent Character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadCowCrazy View Post
Having Infiltrate also confers the Outflank special rule to units of Infiltrators that are kept as Reserves.
An IC without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment.

Here is the question regarding Infiltrate, it says "during deployment".
Does this include Outflank or do they mean during the infiltration deployment?
I believe they mean the entire deployment step. As that is the point any Character joins any unit if they want to be joined at the beginning of the game, (you cannot have your IC joined to a unit when making your list, they are joined when you deploy them within 2" of each other, or declared being joined during deployment.) your IC may not join your unit of inflitrators until deployment is over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadCowCrazy View Post
Reason I dont get this is because if you chose to simply deploy them normally, like any other unit inside your own deployment why wouldn't an IC be able to join them?
The rule that Independent Characters can't join Infiltrators during deployment is designed to stop Independent Characters who can't Infiltrate deploying like an Infiltrating unit. The small setback is you cannot have your IC start the game as part of the same unit at all, even if your Infiltrators were deployed in an area your Independent Character could also deploy. I say small because it's an easy fix. Deploy your Infiltrators and IC close enough that during their first move they can join together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadCowCrazy View Post
Rule says: "Infiltrators can be set up anywhere on the table that is more than 12" from any enemy unit..."
Does the "can" in this case mean I dont have to deploy them this way or is it simply stating it's a possibility?
Both; you don't have to deploy them at least 12" away out of LOS, you can also deploy them at least 18" away in plain sight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadCowCrazy View Post
Does Infiltrate mean I CAN NOT deploy the unit normally? That I HAVE TO use the rules for Infiltrators even if I deploy them in my own deployment zone?
Yes, pg. 38: "Units that contain at least one model with this special rule are deployed last, after all other units (friend or foe) have been deployed."



Quote:
Originally Posted by MadCowCrazy View Post
Scout:


With scout it clearly states that you "can choose" to use this special rule, Infiltrate doesn't state that you have a choice?
Correct.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MadCowCrazy View Post
Scouts p.41 and IC:
Same as Infiltrate, a unit containing at least one model...
No mention about ICs not being able to join them, before, after or during deployment.
Does this mean I can join a scouting unit with an IC and do the Scout Redeployment with them?
Does this mean I can join a unit of Scouts and Outflank together with them

Outflank p.40 :
"...unit that contains at least one model with this special rule..."
I see no restrictions here but can't think of a single unit that has just Outflank. All I know of have Scout or Infiltrate.
An Independent Character can join a unit of Scouts, and the special rule states that if one model in the unit has it, you can use the rule. On pg. 39 in the Independent Character section, under Special Rules, it gives Stubborn as an example of a special rule that specifically states it is conferred from unit to IC and vice versa. The wording for Stubborn is: "When a unit that contains at least one model with this special rule take Morale..." The same wording used in Scouts, and allowing the special rule Scouts to be conferred to joined IC's. IC's can Scout, but not Infiltrate because Independent Characters are not allowed to join Infiltrators at the beginning of the game, when the Infiltrators deploy using their special rule.

"Trying to make some sense of it all,
When I can see it makes no sense at all"

"Fools to the left of me,
Jokers to the right,
Here I am,
Stuck in the middle with you."

Last edited by Salahaldin; 07-05-12 at 02:33 AM.
Salahaldin is offline  
 
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-05-12, 02:41 AM
Banned
Magpie_Oz's Flag is: Australia
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Not every shadow, but any shadow
Posts: 7,889
Reputation: 74
Default

Nah I don't agree with that, an IC can join a unit of infiltrators held in reserve and then outflank so I can't see why they can't choose to join them when the deploy via infiltration as well.
Magpie_Oz is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-05-12, 02:56 AM
Senior Member
 
Salahaldin's Avatar
Salahaldin's Flag is: Canada
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Georgetown, ON
Posts: 584
Reputation: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magpie_Oz View Post
Nah I don't agree with that, an IC can join a unit of infiltrators held in reserve and then outflank so I can't see why they can't choose to join them when the deploy via infiltration as well.
An IC can not join a unit of infiltrators held in reserve. Pg. 38 under Infiltrate: "An Independent Character without the Infiltrate spcial rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment." On the opposite page, under Joining and Leaving a Unit: "An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit, either by being deployed in unit coherency with it or, if the unit is in reserve, by informing your opponent of which unit it has joined." Both of these options, being deployed within 2" of another unit, and declaring the Character is joined to a unit in reserves, take place during deployment. The Infililtrate rule states you may not join an Independent Character with a unit of Infiltrators during deployment.

"Trying to make some sense of it all,
When I can see it makes no sense at all"

"Fools to the left of me,
Jokers to the right,
Here I am,
Stuck in the middle with you."
Salahaldin is offline  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-05-12, 03:04 AM
Banned
Magpie_Oz's Flag is: Australia
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Not every shadow, but any shadow
Posts: 7,889
Reputation: 74
Default

Sounds good, thanks for that.

I guess you can do the opposite tho, an IC that can infiltrate can join a unit that can't and then they all can ?
Magpie_Oz is offline  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-05-12, 03:09 AM
Senior Member
 
Salahaldin's Avatar
Salahaldin's Flag is: Canada
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Georgetown, ON
Posts: 584
Reputation: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magpie_Oz View Post
Sounds good, thanks for that.

I guess you can do the opposite tho, an IC that can infiltrate can join a unit that can't and then they all can ?
Well, as infiltrators are deployed last, there is no chance for a unit to join the IC and deploy as an infiltrator. But if you keep the Infiltrating IC in reserves as well as the unit, and declare they are a joined unit, then they can Outflank. Infiltrate says Independent Characters can't join an Infiltrating unit in deployment, but nothing about Vice Versa.

"Trying to make some sense of it all,
When I can see it makes no sense at all"

"Fools to the left of me,
Jokers to the right,
Here I am,
Stuck in the middle with you."
Salahaldin is offline  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-05-12, 10:16 AM Thread Starter
Banned
MadCowCrazy's Flag is: Aaland
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Burning Depths of Hell
Posts: 2,452
Reputation: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salahaldin View Post
Infiltrate says Independent Characters can't join an Infiltrating unit in deployment, but nothing about Vice Versa.
This is what has me a bit confused. What exactly is deployment? Does putting something in reserves mean that during deployment you put it in reserves?
Does deployment mean when it comes onto the board? i.e when the unit enters via Outflank?
MadCowCrazy is offline  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-05-12, 10:19 AM
Banned
Magpie_Oz's Flag is: Australia
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Not every shadow, but any shadow
Posts: 7,889
Reputation: 74
Default

I think it is pretty much any thing that occurs in the deployment phase is "during deployment"

Also, (I haven't checked) but I don't think a unit can join an IC, the IC has to do the joining.

Last edited by Magpie_Oz; 07-05-12 at 10:22 AM.
Magpie_Oz is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-05-12, 12:20 PM
Senior Member
 
pantat's Avatar
pantat's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 408
Reputation: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadCowCrazy View Post
This is what has me a bit confused. What exactly is deployment? Does putting something in reserves mean that during deployment you put it in reserves?
Does deployment mean when it comes onto the board? i.e when the unit enters via Outflank?
I was always of the thought that the 'deployment phase' was everything that happens before the seize the initiative roll and subsequently the first turn. I may be wrong?
pantat is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Warhammer 40K > 40k Rules Discussion

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome