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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-16-11, 06:56 PM Thread Starter
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Default Ultramarines are not all that?!

Spoilers

Who do you belive? Matt Ward or Graham Mcneill? I been reading Chapters Due and in it....
Calgar is shown to be a Liar. Calgar could not defeat and kill a DP but Lies to his whole Chapter. (Makes me wonder if the Avatar KOed by Calgar awsomness a lie too )
The UM fleet loses badly twice in void warfare to CSM and Renegades, losing a Battle Barge real quick in the fight.
The Codex Astartes is proven at first to be the UMs greatest weakness as they become predictable.
Telios the Master Scout is startled by Raven Guard hiding in the shadows right next to him and all the UM Captains.
Cato Sicarius is shown to be a very angry and stuck up warrior. Not the noble swordsman Matt Ward painted him as. I like the Angry version better.
Tigerious is no more awsome at predicting the futur than Ahriman in a Thousand Sons.
The Ultramarr Sectore lost 2 majore worlds which seems more than what Behometh managed or Black Reach.
Some UMs belive Guilliman didnt have so much to do with all the Wonders that many belive are built by his genious since he was fighting in the Crusade.

Soooo how is Matt Wards "No Chapter is greater than the Ultramarines" which is stated in both the SM Game and Movie seem to enrage all the Haters (Which I use to be untill reading Grahams Dead Sky Black Sun and Chapters Due) show UMs not really all that. They have less than the best of the best qualities. Making no better than SWs, BAs, IFs, ect.

So is Matt Wards Codex on UMs right or Mcneills 6 books paint the true picture here? Who do you belive?

Last edited by Warlock in Training; 06-16-11 at 08:13 PM.
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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-16-11, 09:04 PM
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Nothing to say...

Same anti-smurf feeling

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Visit http://calabozocriollo.foros.ws Venezuela Gaming Forum

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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-16-11, 09:19 PM
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IN the 1st story in age of darkness it shows that the UM relied on the C:A before it is even finished. A captain refuses to see that it could be wrong and blames himself even when Gman says it was his fault, G even says that the dex can't account for everything and never will be.
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-16-11, 09:20 PM
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Incoming news Graham Mcneil has been found dead with a roman U carved into his forehead


My Deceiver is a shard of the true thing and yet has killed
Draigo
Lysander and countless marines
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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-16-11, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlock in Training View Post
Spoilers

Who do you belive? Matt Ward or Graham Mcneill? I been reading Chapters Due and in it....
Calgar is shown to be a Liar. Calgar could not defeat and kill a DP but Lies to his whole Chapter. (Makes me wonder if the Avatar KOed by Calgar wsomness a lie too )
Nothing in the codex ever says Calgar wasn't a liar. Hell, it openly states in the BA codex that Dante doesn't correct the legends about him so people can have hope.
Quote:
The UM fleet loses badly twice in void warfare to CSM and Renegades, losing a Battle Barge real quick in the fight.
It happens. Nothing in the codex (despite what people think) says that the UMs win every battle. Against the hive fleet they lost their entire first company and almost 2 others. Their battle in space was only won through the sacrifice of an Emperor class Battleship blowing up it's warp drives in the heart of the Nid fleet.
Quote:
The Codex Astartes is proven at first to be the UMs greatest weakness as they become predictable.
Known fact, but it very much stinks of plot armor (or bullets in this case). Plus you use "at first" to start your sentence. what follows the "but then" ?
Quote:
Telios the Master Scout is startled by Raven Guard hiding in the shadows right next to him and all the UM Captains.
So a member of a Chapter that specializes in hit and run tactics is more successful at hiding then a Scout Sergeant. Color me shocked. Plus Telion's profile talks about how good of a shot he is, not how sneaky he is.
Quote:
Cato Sicarius is shown to be a very angry and stuck up warrior. Not the noble swordsman Matt Ward painted him as. I like the Angry version better.
Where did Ward paint Sicarius as anything. None of the stories featuring him in the codex talk about his personality at all. I could see people taking away that he is a "noble swordsman" (being that he was born a noble and has a sword) but Zero information in the dex supports that theory.

Quote:
Tigerious is no more awsome at predicting the futur than Ahriman in a Thousand Sons.
We know the future in 40k isn't a fixed thing, so that proves very little. Plus it doesn't mean that Tigurius is a weak psyker.

Quote:
The Ultramarr Sectore lost 2 majore worlds which seems more than what Behometh managed or Black Reach.
It is more then the Nid invasion. 1 more planet was lost. We know the UMs can lose, they lose in the Fall of Damnos.

Quote:
Some UMs belive Guilliman didnt have so much to do with all the Wonders that many belive are built by his genious since he was fighting in the Crusade.
Not very surprising. I bet some of the Blood Angels don't believe Dante killed a Bloodthirster 1 on 1.

Quote:
Soooo how is Matt Wards "No Chapter is greater than the Ultramarines" which is stated in both the SM Game and Movie seem to enrage all the Haters (Which I use to be untill reading Grahams Dead Sky Black Sun and Chapters Due) show UMs not really all that. They have less than the best of the best qualities. Making no better than SWs, BAs, IFs, ect.

So is Matt Wards Codex on UMs right or Mcneills 6 books paint the true picture here? Who do you belive?
The fact is both books are right. The codex builds the hype in a way that's similar to how the wider Imperium sees them. A closer look shows the issues that face the chapter (and most likely face every chapter).
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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-16-11, 09:33 PM
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They're both right. The Ultramarines are the paragons of the Adeptus Astartes and they are also flawed and suffer defeats. They are like Napoleon Bonaparte: brilliant, undefeatable and the all-around best, while also being short-sighted, petulant and foolish. Yet even with all their foibles and shortcomings, they still manage to kick the third-most ass (after the Space Wolves and Iron Snakes, of course, who hold the first and second places for most-asskicking).
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-16-11, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aboytervigon View Post
Incoming news Graham Mcneil has been found dead with a roman U carved into his forehead
OK what was in the point in that comment god i hope this isnt how youve got as many posts as you have with pointless comments like that.


Well i havent read the Ultramarines books, but from what you described in makes them sound better and far less Fanboyish, it actually adds some character to a rather dull Chapter, the sm codex was the reason why i didnt want to read the Ultramarines books as i thought it would be the same "Marines without fault" crap.

Last edited by yanlou; 06-16-11 at 09:37 PM.
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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-16-11, 09:42 PM Thread Starter
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LOL My Point I use to hate the fukin Smurfs cause of the way Matt Ward potrayed them and how they beaten every unbeatable odds in 40k. However Graham books allows a unique site into a Flawed but always trying chapter which is alot better than how the assholes are potrayed in Battle for the Abyss crap. You know 5 UMs vs 100 WBs that drool with cliche Good guy Phrases.

So I was wondering if people like to think the Matt Ward Way or Graham Mcneills portrayel of UMs. Some people Like me are mad Ultra Haters, after these 2 books (which I read purley for IWs cause me to actually like the chapter alittle.


Scary.....
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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-16-11, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanlou View Post


OK what was in the point in that comment god i hope this isnt how youve got as many posts as you have with pointless comments like that.
.

WARNING: Sense of humour failure ahead. WARNING: Sense of hu......
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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-16-11, 09:55 PM
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agreed, nothing is as it seems in the 40k universe, take the BA for example,
beautiful, ruthless, flawed
vicious, savage, unforgiving and human
they fight, they lose, they try and try and try again till barely any are left, then they rebuild and go again, is this not the human condition? does this not describe all of the Astrates?
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