Ultramarines are not all that?! - Page 3 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
40k Fluff Discuss GW background material here. All those bits in the Codex that aren't stat blocks or special rules. Post your custom character/chapter/army background in our Homebrew Fluff subforum!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-17-11, 04:39 PM
Senior Member
 
TheSpore's Avatar
TheSpore's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: VA
Posts: 2,479
Reputation: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogbeard View Post
Emperor's Children? I see the Ultramarines as more like being the loyal counterpart of the Luna Wolves/Black Legion. The Blood Angels seem much more like the loyal counterpart of the Emperor's Children.

BTW, does not having an opinion mean that you don't have an asshole?
Quite possible...

I always felt the BA to be the loyal counter part of the WE with EC mixed in there

TheSpore is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-17-11, 04:56 PM
Senior Member
 
Flash's Avatar
Flash's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Kent, England
Posts: 471
Reputation: 1
Default

I've always associated Ultramarines to be like the Team America World Police of 40k.

Ultramarines fuck yeah, comin' again to save the mutha fuckin' day yeah!
Xeno scum your game is through, cos now you have to answer to....
Ultramarines! Fuck Yeah!!!

And actually they're the most bog standard basic Space Marines and really not all that.

Just a man, with a man's courage...and Terminator armour.
Flash is offline  
post #23 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-17-11, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Warlock in Training's Avatar
Warlock in Training's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,475
Reputation: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant Fossil Penguin View Post
Why would any Codex, meant to show us the awesomeness of that particular army, spend space concentrating on lots of defeats? And then, from the tone the OP gives me, concentrates on the defeats purely for the sake of showing defeat? Certainly, show the featured army losing, but that loss has to show us something that victory won't reveal; a feral self-destruction, a concerted self-reflection, cowardly self-preservation, steely resolve and courage etc.
To ask any Codex to plumb over 10,000 yrs of Imperial history for victories and defeats that are meaningful and advance the idea of what that army are like, is to fundamentally misunderstand what a Codex is for. A Codex provides atmosphere and a grounding in the fluff that surrounds a given force. The BL is there to actually flesh out that vague idea, to show us the meaningful conflicts, and can examine them far better than a Codex paragraph ever could.
Matt Ward is tasked to do one type of writing; big, broad strokes that give us anchor-ideas and hooks for the fluff our battles will create. Graham Mcneill does the other sort; multi-book stories that can concentrate on things the Codex might have mentioned in passing, fleshing out the characters that fought in them, telling us about how the wider area of Imperial space was affected and what consequences the protagonists and antagonists face.
To deride Ward for not writing novels in Codex form, is very unfair.

GFP
For UMs and Loyaltist Codexes thats true. However Complete utter BullShit when it comes to CSM Dex. Almost every other story in there is a overall defeat by loyaltist forces. Riegn of Fire, that story on the UM Sergant, 1st Armeggedon War, Hell MOST of the 13 Black Crusades. Please if what you said is true CSMs would look like winners instead of the bitches they are portrayed as half the time in their own books. They dont win half the time, merely survive.

But thats not what I was talking about. EVERYONE who hates Smurf say their dull and have no personality and ALWAYS win. To a degree its true, but in the BL books that I picked for the Honsou Stories makes me kinda like UMs. Even if that garbage movie sucked balls.
Warlock in Training is offline  
 
post #24 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-18-11, 06:24 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 179
Reputation: 1
Default

Read the new Fall of Damnos book. Sicarius and 100 space marines are able to take on an entire horde of Necron Warriors.

Lets not forget also that Uriel Ventris is able to one punch Khorne himself into submission.

You say they aren't all that, but the latest fluff seems to say they are getting even more kick ass.

They used to be all rigid and codex die hards, now they have commanders like sicarius who do not follow the codex strictly. Soon they will have melee skills on par with space puppies.
CJay is offline  
post #25 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-18-11, 11:28 PM
Senior Member
 
Gree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 437
Reputation: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shandathe View Post
The Ultramarines are the best because they were the biggest. The fact that they were hardly touched by the real fighting in the Heresy means they had the numbers to bully what remained of the other Legions into a framework that wasn't a natural fit for them
Actually only the size limitations of the Codex appear to be mandatory. The Space Wolves, Iron Hands and Salamanders where allowed to retain non-Codex organizations all to varying degrees.
Gree is offline  
post #26 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-19-11, 12:18 AM
Senior Member
 
Shandathe's Avatar
Shandathe's Flag is: Netherlands
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,518
Reputation: 14
Default

Actually, even the size limitations are iffy. I suspect the Space Wolves at least have been creeping over it over the years... And of course the Black Templars, for all that they're divided over the galaxy, are pretty much recreating the numbers of the Imperial Fist Legion by themselves at an estimated five to six thousand battle brothers.

Ask not the Eldar a question, for they will give you three answers; all of which are true and horrifying to know.
Shandathe is offline  
post #27 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-19-11, 12:21 AM
Senior Member
 
Akhara'Keth's Avatar
Akhara'Keth's Flag is: Germany
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tübingen/Germany
Posts: 212
Reputation: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uber Ork View Post
I don't see the Ultramarines as being superior to other chapters...

- Are they genetically superior? No, the majority of space marine chapters out there are an exact copy of their genetic make up.

- Are they martially superior? No, all other space marines have the same ballistic skill and it could be argued they're actually inferior to some other chapters who are better in close combat.

- Are they tactically superior? No, every other codex chapter uses the exact same tactics as they do.

- Do they possess better equipment? No, in fact once again, other space marine chapters have access to superior versions of already existing equipment or to other highly useful equipment that the Ultramarines don't have access to.

- Do they possess greater numbers? No, they get owned by other chapters such as the Black Templars in this department.

- Do they possess a larger fleet? No, twice the number of battle barges is nice, but they still fall miserably behind, once again, a chapter like the Black Templars.
Just remembered this part from 4chan wiki (yes, i said 4chan. Please don't kill me).

There are ongoing reasons that every other chapter of both Loyalist and Traitor legion are better than the Ultramarines. Here are but a few:
  • They did not fight against the traitor legions on the walls of the Imperial Palace, fighting with all they had to defend Terra against horrors the likes of which had never been seen before in the history of the Imperium.
    • That award goes to the Imperial Fists.
  • They did not lose half of their chapter to heresy and engage on a millenia-long crusade of penance to clear their name in the eyes of all other chapters, a never-ending quest that causes them to heroically go up against all odds in order to restore their chapter's shattered honor.
    • That award goes to the Dark Angels.
  • They do not have the balls to ignore what their Chaptermaster wishes, realizing that a chapter with a decentralized command structure is far more effective, choose instead to, like a few other badasses, do their own thing. This means they head around the galaxy and openly lending their aid to any Imperial Guard, Planetary Government, or Space Marine unit that needs their assistance in sabotage, covert ops, and assassination, which includes an assault on a heavily-fortified Tau outpost that captures the ethereal and leaves hundreds dead via a covert strike of a single squad.
    • That award goes to the Raven Guard
  • They did not wind up taking a heavily-defended city that had dug in with fifty marines after it had 2 weeks to prepare its defenses because taking it the quick way with hundreds of casualties "would have been too easy."
    • That award goes to the Alpha Legion.
  • They did not wind up having a Primarch fighting alongside the Emperor deep into Horus' battle barge during the Horus Heresy, only to wind up in a doomed battle that he himself could not win - but fought nonetheless knowing full well that death awaited no matter what course he took.
    • That award goes to the Blood Angels.
  • They are not kickass vikings in space with a Primarch that ******* kicked that ****** Horus' *** in a duel and are so manly that the Imperial Guard named a tank after him.
    • That award goes to the Space Wolves.
  • They are not crafted from the Emperor's Gene-Seed and are privy to knowledge that would destroy lesser men, tasked with the all-important mission of having to destroy the most powerful entities ever brought about from the warp or die in the attempt.
    • That award goes to the Grey Knights.
  • They are not Space Marine Space Pirates that are out for the plunder, wenches, and cool hats.
    • That award goes to the Red Corsairs.
  • They are not angry enough to contest the Angry Marines' claim on being the angriest whilst having the support of an almost-as-angry god, while also being the best melee fighters in the setting.
    • That award goes to the World Eaters.
  • They don't have a thick-enough plot armor to have no more but: a hair-etical Force commander, a 4-man tactical squad led by the only bald marine in the group, a 3-man assault marine squad led by a young hair-etic, a 3-man devastator squad led by an angry-as-**** devastator sergeant, a 3-man scout squad led by the most morbidly grimdark scout sergeant to ever live, the only confirmed negro librarian in the entire Imperium, and a senile Dreadnought stand up to a Tyranid invasion and full-blown Chaos intrusion all the while having no form of heavy armor support other than said Dreadnought. Though the 4th Company did hold the line for them while these shitheads did all the work.
    • That award again goes to the Blood Ravens.
  • They didn't manage to troll an entire marine chapter by having them assault a heavily fortified fortress, and then ambushing them in said fortress after it was but a trap.
    • That award goes to the Iron Warriors.
  • They didn't have the balls to defy the Codex Astartes and have more than 1000 marines in a single chapter in-order to commence a never-ending crusade of awesomeness that resulted in numerous victories, purged millions upon millions of filthy heretics, mutants, and Xenos, while doing it in a medieval-esque fashion that involves them rushing their target with the intent to go CQC as much as possible.
    • That award goes to the Black Templars.
  • They did not successfully troll the Ultramarines into not only abandoning Terra on a fool's errand, but kicking the smurfs' ***** in the process.
    • That award also goes to the Alpha Legion.
  • They are not badass black marines that kicked the **** out of foul xenos with flamer and melta weapons even after shreds of their chapter went ******
    • That award goes to the Salamanders.
  • They do not have a very large amount of master crafted and artificer wargear because they give their artificers extra time to make them since each marine maintains his own wargear.
    • The third award that goes to the Salamanders.
  • They were not capable of getting entire star systems to unconditionally surrender via the mere mention that they were approaching a system.
    • That award goes to the Night Lords.
  • They are not a legion who spent ten thousand years enhancing themselves with bionics and has survived decades despite being constantly ignored by Games Workshop.
    • That award goes to the Iron Hands.
  • They did not turn traitor to protect priceless bits of lore because daddy wanted to be a ******* and decided to hate on Psykers.
    • That award goes to the Thousand Sons.
  • They did not simultaneously tell both Chaos and the Imperium to **** off due to Tzeentch and now go around the galaxy in a Space Hulk fighting everyone in the name of the Emperor led by a half-spider Chapter Master.
    • That award goes to the Soul Drinkers.
  • They did not have two homeworlds destroyed, been brought back from the brink of extinction many times, then finally have the entire Chapter disappear in the warp, only to come back with a different paint job and name, to help Imperials in their time of need, while battling a warp disease that destroys their sanity but gives them incredible strength.
    • That award goes to the Fire Hawks/Legion of the Damned.
  • They do not manage to be tactically competent and even come off as likable and relate-able to the normal people of the Imperium despite being superhuman warriors.
    • That award goes to the Iron Snakes.

Check out my German 40k Blog!!

http://tausend-tore.blogspot.de/
Akhara'Keth is offline  
post #28 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-19-11, 08:28 PM
Senior Member
 
Baron Spikey's Avatar
Baron Spikey's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cheshire/Staffordshire
Posts: 5,934
Reputation: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shandathe View Post
The Ultramarines are the best because they were the biggest. The fact that they were hardly touched by the real fighting in the Heresy means they had the numbers to bully what remained of the other Legions into a framework that wasn't a natural fit for them
They 'bullied' the Imperial Fists, Space Wolves, and Salamanders- with the help of the Raven Guard, White Scars, and Blood Angels. So it's not like the other Legions were all set against the Codex...
Baron Spikey is offline  
post #29 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-19-11, 08:52 PM
Senior Member
 
Wusword77's Avatar
Wusword77's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 1,624
Reputation: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlock in Training View Post
For UMs and Loyaltist Codexes thats true. However Complete utter BullShit when it comes to CSM Dex. Almost every other story in there is a overall defeat by loyaltist forces. Riegn of Fire, that story on the UM Sergant, 1st Armeggedon War, Hell MOST of the 13 Black Crusades. Please if what you said is true CSMs would look like winners instead of the bitches they are portrayed as half the time in their own books. They dont win half the time, merely survive.

But thats not what I was talking about. EVERYONE who hates Smurf say their dull and have no personality and ALWAYS win. To a degree its true, but in the BL books that I picked for the Honsou Stories makes me kinda like UMs. Even if that garbage movie sucked balls.
The problem with CSM "winning" is their ultimate goal is to destroy the Imperium.

Destroy the Imperium and there's nothing left to do with the 40k IP.
Wusword77 is offline  
post #30 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-19-11, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Warlock in Training's Avatar
Warlock in Training's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,475
Reputation: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wusword77 View Post
The problem with CSM "winning" is their ultimate goal is to destroy the Imperium.

Destroy the Imperium and there's nothing left to do with the 40k IP.
What your Point? That has nothing to do with my post what so ever. CSM in their Codex Lose more so than not. GFP said UMs kick ass so the Codex Sell, why not CSMs? Why should I buy the army that is set up like pussies. GW wants me to buy their product, and they make CSMs right?

Last edited by Warlock in Training; 06-19-11 at 10:38 PM.
Warlock in Training is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Warhammer 40K > 40k Fluff

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome