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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-28-11, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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Default 10,000 year old Traitor Marines?

As the title says, I see many people refering to there being CSM alive today that were alive during the Heresy ~10k years ago. But do people mistakenly assume this means they are 10k years old? I think it was in Soul Hunter (or maybe Blood Gorgons?) that it was mentioned that due to time having different properties in the Eye of Terror where most traitor marines reside, while 10,000 years passed in the rest of the universe, inside the Eye, only a few decades or centuries had passed. Yet I continually see people refer to these CSMs as being extremely experienced and ultimately better warriors than the average Loyalist due to having lived SO long. From what I can tell, the loyalist marines that have lived for Millenia are probably more experienced warriors than many of the traitor marines that were around for the Heresy.

Am I mis-remembering what I read or just plain wrong?


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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-28-11, 09:17 PM
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Time is not consistent within the Eye. For some Chaos Astartes 10,000 years may have passed and they therefore may have garnered 10,000 years worth of combat experience. Whilst for others (using Soul Hunter as an example) only a century or so may have passed. But there are also more extremes, for some perhaps only a year or less has passed. Whilst for others perhaps 50,000 years or even longer may have passed, who knows.



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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-28-11, 09:19 PM
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Time has no real meaning in the warp so you are right, to a degree.
As time does not flow in the same way in the warp it's also safe to assume that it could just as easily work the other way, there could be CSM with over a hundred thousand years of experience.
The original SM's were effectively immortal, they could be killed in battle but age would not kill them, therefore they could just keep ticking over, getting better and better at what they do. Add to that the constant infighting between the traitor legions and only the smartest and toughest would survive.
Although it's not shown in actual game terms I would say that the original traitor marines are superior to their modern day equivalents.

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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-28-11, 09:20 PM
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There is no way of gauging how old any of the traitor astartes actually are. As you pointed out, time doesn't flow as we know it withing the Eye. The traitors could be anywhere from a young age to well over 10,000 years old. They could emerge from the Eye having to them only been in there for a matter of months since the Heresy or whenever they entered. They could of course exit having spent tens of thousands of years in there.

Edit: Bah, beaten by both CotE and Norm!
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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-28-11, 09:20 PM Thread Starter
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Ah interesting. So definitely not cut and dry. Certainly leaves a lot of room for artistic license doesn't it...


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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-28-11, 09:37 PM
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No you're misunderstanding those people. Every CSM that is put on the tabletop or fights in any war against the imperium has a 99% probability of having killed several SM captains during the attack on Terra, killed Rogal Dorn (most likely with no weapons of their own) all while never growing old in the 10,000 years from the HH. They should all have better stats in every category over loyal SMs, have eternal warrior, and every good USR.



Most of the time, the people making the claims that CSM are all 10k years old tend to just be fanboys for CSM. Similar to how people claim Matt Ward is an Imperial fanboy, they make crazy claims about the CSM faction and just say "HURR THE WARP MAKES THEM LEETZORS DURR."

I would say a good amount of the CSM that date to the Heresy are either dead, ascended, or have spent so much time deep in the warp that they haven't aged more then a few hundred years (if they aged at all).
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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-28-11, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Wusword77 View Post
No you're misunderstanding those people. Every CSM that is put on the tabletop or fights in any war against the imperium has a 99% probability of having killed several SM captains during the attack on Terra, killed Rogal Dorn (most likely with no weapons of their own) all while never growing old in the 10,000 years from the HH. They should all have better stats in every category over loyal SMs, have eternal warrior, and every good USR.



Most of the time, the people making the claims that CSM are all 10k years old tend to just be fanboys for CSM. Similar to how people claim Matt Ward is an Imperial fanboy, they make crazy claims about the CSM faction and just say "HURR THE WARP MAKES THEM LEETZORS DURR."

I would say a good amount of the CSM that date to the Heresy are either dead, ascended, or have spent so much time deep in the warp that they haven't aged more then a few hundred years (if they aged at all).
Ahhh, so that must make you one of those Loyalist Fanboys that get a new SM Codex every year and scream "Duuurrrr, Speece Marines are da best coz thez da good guyz!!!" Even tho Chaos Marines live in way more hostile conditions than their counter parts, and the sad fact is Chaos Gifted Marines trump joe shmoe Marine. Sorry.
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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-28-11, 10:29 PM
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Wow, this thread got hostile quick!

CSM being over 10k years old isn't fanboyism it's what's written in the fluff, nothing to do with Twat Ward's wet dreams, it's standard established fluff that's been around since the CSM's.

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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-28-11, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by normtheunsavoury View Post
Wow, this thread got hostile quick!

CSM being over 10k years old isn't fanboyism it's what's written in the fluff, nothing to do with Twat Ward's wet dreams, it's standard established fluff that's been around since the CSM's.
I just get annoyed when catered too players try to talk smack to CSM players who have to deal with a single crappy codex while they get BTs, DAs, BAs, SWs, GKs, and SMs. Get over it people, some of us can only afford to buy one army and sorry it happens to be CSM and their fluff (like SWs) is awsome.
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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-28-11, 11:03 PM
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Well as been said time flows different in the warp a csm could be only 500 yrs old real space time, but cause of the warp 5,000 yrs may have passed since the csm turned traitor and went to the EoT, but we know that most csm have had far more combat experience that most space marines, and there will be those that have had 10,000 yrs worth of experience.
It is in the fluff that those few in the traitor legions will be 10,000 yrs old.
Even a 200 yr old chaos marine my have the experience of 10,000yrs of combat.
One example could be Kharn the betrayer, because of Khorne, i bet Kharn is going to be 10,000 yrs old, same with most of the SC in the chaos dex.

And so its nothing to do with chaos fanboyism, when its in fluff.
I wouldnt put it past some csm champions to be able to put down even Calgar, i would most certainly bet say a dark apostle could best most space marine heroes.
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