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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-19-11, 10:45 AM
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So, basically; you're refuting it, because you've not personally seen it? I'm guessing you think that the world's flat then?

They aren't Imperial Guard. They're Schola Progenium, like the Commisar.

As to citing my source; I've already told you. Gothic War.

Policing the ship? It'll sort itself out. They don't patrol the gantry's, fucking hell. That'll get them killed. No, they are close protection for the officers, and the reliable resource through which a commissar can enforce his will.

I've not said that ST's do any of that. So I don't know why you're bringing it up. MP/Red Caps are mostly Close Protection in a military role. Derp De Fucken Derp.



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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-19-11, 12:32 PM
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As Vaz has stated, the ST component aboard Naval Ships is there for specific purposes including protection of senior officers. The gothic wars stuff leads us to these conclusions.

As has been stated too, the role of Arbites is to patrol and enforce Imperial Law upon those worlds that are under Imperial Protection. Note that most worlds have their own law enforcement agencies to deal with internal matters. The arbites are there to enforce Imperial Law, nothing more, but nothing less.

As for MP.

Way back in RT era days. There is a rank for MP. Its a single line of fluff and it from memory would have appeared in either the Compendium or BRB of the RT era. Basically all it shows is a arm rank badge. In the old RT era, Lt. Commander etc were all ranks common in the Astrates. One particular graphic has 3 crimson fist arms from memory and one of the ranks shown is MP. This to my knowledge is the first and last apperance of it.

The role of MP in the Astrates is one which is really taken up by the Chaplain for all purposes of enforcing will and why the unit is fighting. It is the Chaplain who is the representative of the Emperor and the Imperium. Hence;

1). They have a Rosarius to show their link (NO MATTER HOW LIP SERVICE the link is) to the Adminstratum and the Eccelisarchy.

2). They wear black armor to represent the dead Emperor on the throne or semi dead... same with the entire skull motif to inspire fear in their enemies.


The Chaplain is not there to police the Astrates over mundane matters, but to enforce the will of the Emperor and ensure the Astrates are compliant with the Imperium. But you have to recognize they are marines of the Chapter first... so the likely hood of them being in that role is more over matters of Heresy or over deviation from the Imperial creed or Codex Astrates more than anything else. The modern fluff has them more as inspirational leaders than their first role.... but the echo's in the fluff are there.
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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-19-11, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
So, basically; you're refuting it, because you've not personally seen it? I'm guessing you think that the world's flat then?

They aren't Imperial Guard. They're Schola Progenium, like the Commisar.

As to citing my source; I've already told you. Gothic War.

Policing the ship? It'll sort itself out. They don't patrol the gantry's, fucking hell. That'll get them killed. No, they are close protection for the officers, and the reliable resource through which a commissar can enforce his will.

I've not said that ST's do any of that. So I don't know why you're bringing it up. MP/Red Caps are mostly Close Protection in a military role. Derp De Fucken Derp.
They are not Schola Progenium. They grew up and trained there, but there are Imperial Guard. Come to that matter, Commisars are as well, but they're outside the chain of command.

And I think this...disagreement, is based upon your understanding of what military police do. If you think they're some sort of elite bodyguards then, hey, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Then again you think the Schola Progenium alumni form some sort of unique organization outside both the Navy and Guard.
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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-20-11, 01:36 AM
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I'm fully aware of what MP's do. MORE THAN fully aware.

And no, the Schola Progenium is autonomous as are those in its ranks.

Where exactly does it say that they're Imperial Guardsmen?



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It's not a black and white question really, there are different shades of anal probing,
a rectum spectrum, if you will
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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-20-11, 02:16 AM
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From the Imperial Guard Codex, fifth edition. I'll take some quotes:

"Storm Troopers form the Imperial Guard's best fighting force. They are ruthless, proficient killers whose combat skills within the Imperial Guard are second to none."

This is important as it says that they're part of the Imperial Guard.

"...Storm Troopers are better armed and armored than regular Guardsmen."

This implies that there are other Guardsmen who are better armored than normal guardsmen--Storm Troopers, for example.

"Storm Troopers are constantly moving from one warzone to another and are amongst the most experienced units in the Imperial Guard."

It says explicitly that they're part of the Imperial Guard there.

This isn't to say that Storm Troopers can not be seconded to individuals or other Imperial bodies: the Inquisition, for example.

I think this disagreement stems from one misconception you're holding. Storm Troopers may have some duties that they share with military police--guarding important officials or positions behind the lines. But as you said, Storm Troopers do not do many of the duties expected of MP. Which is fair, since they're different.
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post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-20-11, 02:38 AM
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Basically, "legal authority" is tied to rank authority. Punishments are meeted out by higher ranking officials. In IG units, the final authority on crimes because he has the final authority on any given soldier of any rank.

In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, there is no Common Sense.
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post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-20-11, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hailene View Post
This isn't to say that Storm Troopers can not be seconded to individuals or other Imperial bodies: the Inquisition, for example.

I think this disagreement stems from one misconception you're holding. Storm Troopers may have some duties that they share with military police--guarding important officials or positions behind the lines. But as you said, Storm Troopers do not do many of the duties expected of MP. Which is fair, since they're different.
That's true, and neither did I say they were MP's, neither did I say they were limited to sitting on the hands during conflict on ships.

For example, IA3 - they protected the stores and made sure that the Transports got off safely.



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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindi Baji View Post
It's not a black and white question really, there are different shades of anal probing,
a rectum spectrum, if you will
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post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-20-11, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
The police, however, is filled by the Arbites on the civilian side, and on the military side, either by Commissar's, or by other Schola Progenium heavies - notably Storm Troopers on naval vessels...
You explicitly said that Storm Troopers are a police force. On a naval vessel, nonetheless.
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post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-20-11, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
The police, however, is filled by the Arbites on the civilian side, and on the military side, either by Commissar's, or by other Schola Progenium heavies - notably Storm Troopers on naval vessels, although Armsmen (as seperate from chaingangs/press ratings) are known to help NCO's in this matter
You need to read again sunshine.



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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindi Baji View Post
It's not a black and white question really, there are different shades of anal probing,
a rectum spectrum, if you will
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post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-20-11, 02:32 PM
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I would love to hear you keep digging. Do explain. For slow people like me.
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