Ultramarines actually 3 legions - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-20-11, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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Default Ultramarines actually 3 legions

i was thinking about this and i suddenly remembered something in Horus rising
"ultramarines are good but there are so damn many of them"
any other hints that could prove they were three legions


For all who want to know you get this from magic the gathering



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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-20-11, 03:41 PM
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The number of second founding chapters they have.
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-20-11, 03:59 PM
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In the First Heretic two word bearers are conversing to themselves about the ultramarines being made up with the remains of the two lost legions, but ADB has stated himself that two word bearers talking among themselves does not mean that it actually happened and cannot be classed as cannon.

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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-20-11, 04:11 PM
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A legion is 10,000 space marines (Legions aren't used anymore, they have chapters of 1000 space marines) So 30,000 Ultramarines?! How did you come to that?

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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-20-11, 04:24 PM
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Neither the words from Horus Rising nor the number of second founding successor chapters can be taken of proof for this rumour. They simply confirm the number of Ultramarines around before and after the heresy and susequent harrowing. They don't give any hint as to the 'why'. To my knowledge the concept was only introduced in the First Heretic so I'd be surprised if there were any hints in other earlier works.
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-20-11, 04:37 PM
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Yeah, at the end of False Gods when Horus is talking about his plans of "toppling the Emperor from his Throne" he says 'The Emperor commands the loyalty of millions of soldiers and hundred of thousands of Astartes warriors." Page 405 near the top middle. And I was thinking Ok..Horus has 10K, and Magnus is with him..so there's 20K..and 16 other legions makes 160K Astartes, which isn't hundred(s) of thousands. That's before he converts another 6-7 legions and I wasn't sure if he took into account that fact he was working on the Iron Warriors and some of the other legions he was planning on converting before he made the statement.

Yes, I know I'm looking to deeply into the words of the author. But I think the author has to be held responsible anything he writes that may or may not contridict the already written fluff. There will be people out there who hold the fluff as the Written Word, and anything that may challenge what is already Truth, will be scrutinized by many a loyal fan. Me? I just like the facts to add up, and don't care for descrephancies. (sp?)
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-20-11, 04:45 PM
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The 10,000 mark for Astartes is only in Index Astartes and some Heresy novels. Collected Visions states that Legions where around 100,000 Astartes on average.
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-20-11, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
The 10,000 mark for Astartes is only in Index Astartes and some Heresy novels. Collected Visions states that Legions where around 100,000 Astartes on average.
Quite right. I have the Collected Visions as well all the HH novels out, and very hard to say just how many SM there were within the Legions. All people seem to be able to agree on is that the TS were the smallest, UM were the largest and LW/SoH were the second largest. But there's never really been a solid official number for the amount of men in an average Legion. It seems to be somewhere in between tens of thousands and hundreds of thousand of SM. However, given the sheer scope of the HH, beyond the big famous battles we always hear about, I'm leaning to towards the hundreds of thousands.

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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-20-11, 05:06 PM
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Well i was pretty sure it was Erebus and Kor Phaoren who talked bout the two lost legions, and how Logar had been heart broken about losing two brothers. So i believe that the Ultramarines did recieve a boost to their legion, what with having destroyed two brother legion........buggers!!!!!
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-20-11, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAM21201 View Post
Well i was pretty sure it was Erebus and Kor Phaoren who talked bout the two lost legions, and how Logar had been heart broken about losing two brothers. So i believe that the Ultramarines did recieve a boost to their legion, what with having destroyed two brother legion........buggers!!!!!
Actually no. It's Russ who was implied to have destroyed the two Legions in Prospero Burns.

But it's a moot point. The author has come out and said it's nothing more than two soldiers joking around. It's not fact at all.
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