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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-16-11, 06:54 PM Thread Starter
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Default demon prince process

Haven't read too many 40k novels yet, so not sure if there's ever been much detail.

I would like to know more about how characters become a demon prince. Primarily, is it voluntary or do they not have a choice? Is there some amount of time needed. I suppose the only real specification is to obey the chaos gods or god your devoted to well enough/please them enough that they somehow turn you into one.

When a character becomes demon prince, what does the term prince infer? do they get a new army of some kind?

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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-16-11, 07:30 PM
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One cannot really understand the minds of the chaos gods as to why they bless some of their champions with Daemonhood and others with spawnhood. Some spend eternity fighting for a chaos deity and don't get either except for some good gifts.

The best reason I think they do certain things and then do others, is that they are skeptical over how these champions will use their ultimate gifts of daemonhood. They ask whether the gift will either do more or perhaps make the champions less imbitious.

Some interesting champions are the four champions of the four deities, Kharn, Arniham, Typhus, and Lucius. And I guess you can put Abaddon as well. It is hinted that Abaddon has chosen not to accept the reward of daemonhood in the Chaos Codex. I forgot which one. And that he is waiting to win his last crusade in order to accept that reward. Same could be said about the four other champions.

But who knows? I think its skeptical more than anything. I don't think the chaos deities will grant him daemonhood. I think he does more for chaos with what he is right now. He has made chaos almost and maybe as powerful as it was during the Heresy. A lot of the Primarchs have been awarded the rank of Daemon Prince with doing a small fraction of what Abaddon has done. So who knows? I think the Chaos Gods have been more skeptical over what to award their champions. So in short, it may or may not be something they can accept. It seems to be hinted though, that they may have the choice.

The Primarchs at least in my eyes have not done so much for their patrons since awarded. But then again, thats just what I think. Angron is pretty much the only one that has made a good show for the gods. And for that I think Khorne will bring him back after his banishment. None of the other primarchs have died except for Konrad Curze. And he is dead. I don't think the gods will bring him back. I think because he doesn't really play along with their plans like other mortal champions like Kharn or Lucius.

In one of the Chaos Codex, it says that Daemon Princes care less about the affairs of humans, leaving it to mortal bitches who crave attention and want the gift. Also, some of the Daemon Princes are fighting for the Greater Game between the gods.



As far as why they are called Daemon Princes? I am not quite sure. A prince is at least to me is the closest thing to a king/god. So maybe the prince term refers to the closest thing a mortal can be to a god.

Sometimes Daemon Princes are given armies of lesser daemons. But generally, in a Daemon army, daemons often see Daemon Princes as tainted daemons. And consider them inferior.
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-16-11, 07:35 PM
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It's not really volutary but they do certainly have a choice. You have to actively seek to make yourself a daemon prince, if the gods just start giving you stuff you become a spawn instead. Generally speaking the gods require somekind of significant sacrifice, gene-seed is commonly used because its so precious and signifies the utter destruction of the enemy. Special acts (such as razing a cardinal world and plunging a sector into civil war; from C:CSM 3.5) can also suffice.

I think the term is meant to imply both subservience to their patron god (the 'king' if you will) as well as leadership over his subjects. I would expect (and I have no evidence of this) that a daemon prince would be better able to summon daemons to assist his host. However the bulk of his forces will remain the same.

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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-16-11, 07:36 PM
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I prefer to think of the whole proses more in lines with the whole chaos gods are gestalt pseudo beings that represent a spectrum of emotions thing. Hence it has less to do with a the gods favoring you and more to do with the person being elevated in question.


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Two Slaanesh daemons on the first go...hmm I guess the fates have spoken emperors children here I come
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-16-11, 08:08 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ckcrawford View Post

In one of the Chaos Codex, it says that Daemon Princes care less about the affairs of humans, leaving it to mortal bitches who crave attention and want the gift. Also, some of the Daemon Princes are fighting for the Greater Game between the gods.

As far as why they are called Daemon Princes? I am not quite sure. A prince is at least to me is the closest thing to a king/god. So maybe the prince term refers to the closest thing a mortal can be to a god.

Sometimes Daemon Princes are given armies of lesser daemons. But generally, in a Daemon army, daemons often see Daemon Princes as tainted daemons. And consider them inferior.
All good points, these last few I believe clear some things up about their role. I suppose it is very likely that once a demon prince (as I believe I have also read that they care less about the whole humanity/imperium problem once they are a demon prince) they become generals or some kind of equivalent for their Lord's armies against the other Gods' armies. It is sometimes hard to remember that there is just as much war going on inside the warp (I think) as there is in the material realm.

Your last point is very interesting to me because I have never come across that information. I can see how true demons would consider them lesser though since they would likely be considered 'demon hybrids'. However I'm not sure how believable it is for demons to look upon demon princes as inferior so much as it is that they look toward them with disdain due to the fact that they began as mortal and have achieved a higher rank in the warp than themselves even though they are neverborn. but maybe the neverborn are still high in the god's eyes, I dont know.

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I prefer to think of the whole proses more in lines with the whole chaos gods are gestalt pseudo beings that represent a spectrum of emotions thing. Hence it has less to do with a the gods favoring you and more to do with the person being elevated in question.
If I am understanding you right, this is an interesting idea. You're saying that it may be a matter of how true the individual becomes to the essence that feeds the gods, or rather they become like the gods on a mental level but since they arent gods they turn into the closest things they can.

Do you mean how enlightened they become. Or how close they become synonymous with the particular emotion. One example I can think of that may be an argument against that, is that it seems like all the dark eldar would be demon princes of slaanesh, but I suppose chaos worship and the emotion would have to go hand in hand.

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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-16-11, 09:14 PM
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Closer to the latter, but with element of the first interpretation. Remember that especially in the case of the DE they are so in tune with Slaanesh do to birthing him, one would assume their identity being so closely linked to Slaanesh, that they would be completely subsumed by chaos if they where exposed to it in a unprotected fashion.

However more specifically warp energies appear to affect different races in different ways. For instance human can actively worship, and at times bath in warp energy, but survive. Where beings like eldar seem to not be able to do so, possibly do to their highly psychic nature. Furthermore even though the gods can be viewed as amorphous blobs of horrific psychic energy that form a well that both absorbs, and ejects warp energies of a specific spectrum (Like a black hole) they do at some level have a random consciousness expressing the billions of condensed elements of the souls that make them up. So in other words Spawndom within this spectrum would be do to the soul/mind of the individual being unable to impose their own order on the warp energies they inherently siphon from their deity (Think shingon Buddhist teachings revolving around identification with a buddha/kami) which ends with the physical, and mental feature of the entity being ripped apart by the disharmony if they fail to harmonize.

Now a princes would be very rare in such a system, because the individual has to reach a certain identification with the gestalt will of the chaos god, and have a great enough will to impose their own order on the energy they absorb. In this spectrum one could speculate that Eldar being highly psychic by nature are both resistant (Do to interference from their own souls) to the warp energies emitted by the gods, and yet highly susceptible to the pull of the warp appon death do to their especially emotionally ridden souls. So in other words they are to powerful to gradually be corrupted by chaos, but do to their strength they are very susceptible to annihilation in the inferno of the warp do to the pull of forces in the warp segmenting their soul into fragments (The stronger the magnet the stronger the affect on other magnets). Where humans are more alike to iron then a magnet in that they are weak enough to absorb the influences of the gods, but have a property where they can assimilate to their influences without it outright destroying them.

I have far more metaphysics based on this conception of the warp, however listing it here may be counter productive to the thread.


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Two Slaanesh daemons on the first go...hmm I guess the fates have spoken emperors children here I come
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-16-11, 09:34 PM
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Some Demon Princes still hang out with their legions, mind you. It depends on the person himself. If he's a pious Chaos follower, he probably takes his new gift to chill with the Gods and play Chaos Wars with them.

If he's more power hungry, he'll probably just use his elevated status to continue messing other people's crap up without the fear of getting nailed.

Or if he's one of the more devoted Traitor Legions, he might use his demonhood to rally more to his cause so they could overthrow the Imperium. If the Chaos forces would ever actually team up, that is. Failbaddon's crusades don't count.
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-17-11, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by unxpekted22 View Post
Your last point is very interesting to me because I have never come across that information. I can see how true demons would consider them lesser though since they would likely be considered 'demon hybrids'. However I'm not sure how believable it is for demons to look upon demon princes as inferior so much as it is that they look toward them with disdain due to the fact that they began as mortal and have achieved a higher rank in the warp than themselves even though they are neverborn. but maybe the neverborn are still high in the god's eyes, I dont know.
Fair enough. Its in the Chaos Daemons Codex. The point where I said daemons think of Daemon Princes of being inferior. It purely as you say 'daemon hybrid" thing.

Daemon Princes are very powerful compared to most daemons. And it's mostly because when they get destroyed their gods don't really care about recreating them (lesser daemons or daemons of least importance). So in that instance, it may be a jelousy issue.

If I could provide you an example of it to how you can better see it, I would relate it to a great African American football player in a team full of racists. He could be the best football player in that team. But the fact that he's black and they think he's inferior to them, he will never get the recognition he deserves. (Sorry, I just watched Remember the Titans, so I thought that may have been a good example)


To the overall question, Its still quite interesting. You have great champions that still have not been granted that rank. Then you have no names like M'kar. Who the hell is M'kar? Well hes a fricken Word Bearer from the Heresy. And yet, you don't hear anything about him in any of the Heresy books. AT ALL! You have to read the last bits of The Chapter's Due, to know who he actually is.
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