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post #1 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-02-11, 08:49 PM Thread Starter
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Default Space marine spec,

Had the whole "if space marines invaded earth" discussion at lunch today, we couldn't agree on how much a space marine could deal/take.

What exactly does the bolt round consist of? How much radiation/heat can power armour take and can anyone list all of the things a marine can do above the norm.



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post #2 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-02-11, 09:11 PM
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If Space Marines invaded Earth, it would be all over for us.

To answer your question, a boltgun is, in essence (to use familiar munitions), an automatic rifle that shoots rocket-propelled grenades capable of breaching our modern tanks for ammunition.

A Space Marine is superhumanly strong, fast, and durable. His stamina allows him to operate for great periods of time with minimal resources. His power armour would shield him from largely any small arms we have available. Explosives on the scale of bombs or missiles carried by aircraft, or shells fired by main battle tanks and attack helicopters would be needed to breach their power armour. Radiation would likely be countered for prolonged periods of time by environmental seals.
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post #3 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-02-11, 09:23 PM Thread Starter
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If Space Marines invaded Earth, it would be all over for us.
We knew that, we were discussing how many we would take with us and where would be first to fall and things like that.

Just how fast is super strong and fast? Are we speaking usain bolt? Or the flash?



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post #4 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-02-11, 09:27 PM
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There's a lot of contradicting evidence. It really depends on where you're getting your info, when, and who's writing it.

Look at Imperial Armor volume two: It says that the Predator's armor is equivalent of 200mm of conventional steel. To give you a ball park figure, the Abrams have 940-960mm equivalent thickness against kinetic penetrators and a staggering 1320-1620mm worth of equivalent steel armor against HEAT rounds.

Even the allmighty Landraider only has 300m equivalent armor. That'd put the Abrams as at least 3 times more protected, sometimes as high as 5, than a Landraider.

So again, it depends all on your sources.
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post #5 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-02-11, 10:04 PM
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Yah 40k fan boyism aside going on the weaker side of 40k nonsence we actually fair decently for having no energy weapons, Ahbrams would be roughly AV13-14, and would ignore anything below a missle launcher. Also idiotic suedo science aside one would gauess do to the giant ass armor joints, and the fact that after a certain vilocity humn flesh is reduced to much by kinetic energy, stuff like anti material rifles, and high explosives would gank marines left, and right. Also we have nucular weapons capable of killing conteinents.

So yah idiocy aside we would only lose do to them having endless supplies of troops, and giant ass space carriers, that and the ability to land forces any where on the globe in hours. However in a ground war any industrialized nation could kill marines, they may need to use fual air bombs to do so, but we would figure that out in about 24 hours (The davantage of not being a bunch of idiots that fear light bulbs).

In other words we would win because we are acutally human beings, and not a imppossible space empire made up of superstitios nut jobs. Last time I checked things that can exist always been impossible fiction construct. If 40k made rational sence then maybe they would win, but it would be impossible to tell going on the current nonesence.

PS I will spell check this when I get home.


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post #6 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-02-11, 10:05 PM
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Heilene,

When it comes to things like that, I always assume there's some way that metals, alloys, etc., have been developed better in the future.

Remember the first "Gaunt's Ghosts" novel? The antagonist goes on a rant about an STC that was found that produced "a type of steel blade, an alloy of folded steel composite that was sharper and lighter and tougher than anything [they have] had before."

To the OP:
It all comes down to opinion. Different folks have different opinions as to what Astartes are physically capable of. For myself, I consider them to be superhuman outside of their power armour--superhuman in the sense that they are capable of things that an unaugmented human is capable of. So, they can lift more than an unaugmented person. They run faster and longer. They can take more damage and recover from it, and they can inflict more damage with their bare hands than a normal human could. In "Purging of Kadillus", a Dark Angel is attended by an Apothecary after his shoulder is separated and his secondary heart is stabbed. He gets up after cursory treatment and gets back into the fight. Astartes have been shown losing limbs and continuing. They punch through rock walls, etc.

How long would it take for them to take over our earth? I don't know. In terms of effectively conquering the world (e.g., all put the most sporadic opposition quashed)? Days?

LukeValentine,

Your argument presumes that there are no effective advancements in terms of armor quality and weapon penetration in over thirty eight millennia. This would be highly unlikely considering that, in a mere handful of centuries since firearms were introduced, we have introduced armor capable of stopping most forms of small arms.

As for fuel air bombs, etc... Warfare is about attaining the superiority needed to level those effects on your enemy needed for victory. Today, the most prevalent such superiority is aerial superiority/power, which provides a nation with the firepower, mobility, and maneuver needed to defeat an enemy (along with a healthy application of combined arms). A single entity being able to command orbit, maneuver from orbit, and project firepower from said orbit would be devastating.

In fewer words, you'd be lucky if there were air bases still operating, from which aircraft armed with fuel-air bombs (of which there is only a finite number), by the time the Astartes decided it was time to come down with Thunderhawks and Drop Pods.

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post #7 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-02-11, 10:14 PM
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Abrahms would be about AV 13-14, and ignoring missles seems possible because of the explosives on the outside. Also possibly ignore any other kind of solid-shot projectile? (i.e. Railgun, Autocannon, etc.)

Then we have our Air Force. Yes Space marines are good but put them up to a Raptor or Eagle with Tiger missles and womp.

Navy would play a big part, too. Even in WW2 we had 15 in cannons on some battleships, and now I think we go up to like 12 on Destroyers.

In short, we would probably wreck them on land, the only problem for us would be their Orbital Bombardments and Navy.

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Safety warnings in the Imperium would be... Less than helpful.

Caution! Failure to appease the Machine Spirit may cause it to grow wrathful!

Extreme Danger: Recite the Litany of the Somnolent Inferno before firing.

Reminder: The Adeptus Mechanicus reminds you that this weapon is both sacred and more valuable than your entire platoon.

Important! Death in service to the Emperor is its own reward.

Yep, that's really useful
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post #8 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-02-11, 10:36 PM
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I doubt the Marines would be foolish enough to go head on with us. First they would try to convert us, then subjugate us, and if we put up too much resistance, eliminate us!

And we would never fire missiles, where they would most certainly strike: urban areas

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post #9 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-02-11, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
And we would never fire missiles, where they would most certainly strike: urban areas
Evacuations.

Then we can do whatever-the-fuck we want!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azezel View Post
Safety warnings in the Imperium would be... Less than helpful.

Caution! Failure to appease the Machine Spirit may cause it to grow wrathful!

Extreme Danger: Recite the Litany of the Somnolent Inferno before firing.

Reminder: The Adeptus Mechanicus reminds you that this weapon is both sacred and more valuable than your entire platoon.

Important! Death in service to the Emperor is its own reward.

Yep, that's really useful
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post #10 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-02-11, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyleune View Post
Abrahms would be about AV 13-14, and ignoring missles seems possible because of the explosives on the outside. Also possibly ignore any other kind of solid-shot projectile? (i.e. Railgun, Autocannon, etc.)
Again, this supposes that there have been no advances in metals/armor in 38,000 years. That's unlikely, given that in just five centuries we overcame the problem of firearms rendering body armor obsolete. As such, I seriously doubt Abrams armor comes close to approaching that of the tanks of the far future.

The one thing that we have an advantage over the tanks of the future is speed. Imperial Armour has most tanks going 40km/h or slower, which is pathetic compared to today's tanks. I shake my head in consternation when I read such stats. I guess it comes down to the fact that, wargamers or not, civilians sometimes miss some things that strike people in the military as obvious.

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Then we have our Air Force. Yes Space marines are good but put them up to a Raptor or Eagle with Tiger missles and womp.
Again, good luck having an Air Force at all, when your opponent is engaging you from low orbit.

Quote:
Navy would play a big part, too. Even in WW2 we had 15 in cannons on some battleships, and now I think we go up to like 12 on Destroyers.
The Navy would play the smallest part of all. Moving at snail-like speed compared to orbital ships, the average surface warship would be merely a target.

But even if you don't take this into consideration, the fact of the matter is that modern technology--in terms of tanks, artillery, etc.--just wouldn't compete with what the Astartes would bring. It would be a shoddy far future, indeed, if we were basically using the same-old, same-old as we do today.

Last edited by Phoebus; 02-02-11 at 11:09 PM.
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