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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-05-11, 09:52 AM Thread Starter
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Default Chapter Foundings

This may be a completely ridiculous question, but I figured I would ask it anyway: What do people mean when they say the "21st founding" or the "3rd founding"? Is that refering to sub chapters, foudned after the original, such as the Flesh Tearers being a 2nd founding to the Blood Angels? I've always seen foundings in posts and just thought "Ahh, yes, the 21st founding, I see I see. " but have never really grasped that concept.

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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-05-11, 10:09 AM
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No, that's exactly it. The 2nd Founding was the split after the Heresy, and thus Founding is a bit misleading, lol.

It created the likes of the Storm Lords, Genesis Chapter, Wolf Brothers, Angels of Absolution, Flesh Tearers, Black Templars, Brazen Claws, Raptors, etc.

After that the High Lords have used the stored Gene-Seed (every Chapter makes tithes of their gene-seed to the Adeptus, unsure whether it is annual or every Century or whatever...the latter seems more likely, given Warp Travel.) of the Founding Legions (and perhaps Successors, it is unknown exactly) to create a new 'batch' of Chapters - these are the subsequent Foundings. I think the most recent was the 34th? I'm very hazy on that one. Not in the Codex.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-05-11, 10:21 AM Thread Starter
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Awesome thanks! I figured that was the case, just wasn't sure of the specifics. So there are hundreds of sub chapters that fall under the main chapters, and each is given a specific founding based on when they came about. Now I don't have to pretend I know whats going on lol

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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-05-11, 10:27 AM
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Yes, although no-one knows exactly how many Chapters have ever been founded, nevermind how many are still Loyal and fit for active service. The Brazen Claws and Black Consuls, for instance, have both been rumoured destroyed, but nobody knows for sure. The location of the Howling Griffons is also unknown.

Also, no-one is even sure which Chapters were founded when, for the majority. GW has never said, and deliberately so.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-05-11, 11:22 AM
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Many foundings are unlisted, so few chapters even know when they were started. You gotta think, if your chapter was founded, say, in the M36 perid, then it could've been any of the 3 foundings officially listed by GW, or even one of the 6 that supposedly occured, but aren't listed. Many, including myself, think this is done intentionally, for growing purposes.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-05-11, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKingElessar View Post
No, that's exactly it. The 2nd Founding was the split after the Heresy, and thus Founding is a bit misleading, lol.

It created the likes of the Storm Lords, Genesis Chapter, Wolf Brothers, Angels of Absolution, Flesh Tearers, Black Templars, Brazen Claws, Raptors, etc.

After that the High Lords have used the stored Gene-Seed (every Chapter makes tithes of their gene-seed to the Adeptus, unsure whether it is annual or every Century or whatever...the latter seems more likely, given Warp Travel.) of the Founding Legions (and perhaps Successors, it is unknown exactly) to create a new 'batch' of Chapters - these are the subsequent Foundings. I think the most recent was the 34th? I'm very hazy on that one. Not in the Codex.
26th Founding circa. mid M41.

Foundings can be spaced quite widely apart- we're talking millennia in some cases- and are usually instigated in the face of a significant event or threat (Black Crusade etc).
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherArcadius View Post
Many foundings are unlisted, so few chapters even know when they were started. You gotta think, if your chapter was founded, say, in the M36 perid, then it could've been any of the 3 foundings officially listed by GW, or even one of the 6 that supposedly occured, but aren't listed. Many, including myself, think this is done intentionally, for growing purposes.
What an unfortunate example- in M36 there were actually 8 foundings, all within a couple of hundred years (13th-21st, all occuring just prior to the Age of Apostasy). Yes that means the 'Dark' Founding (13th) and 'Cursed' Founding (21st) happened within a score of decades of each other.

Last edited by Baron Spikey; 01-05-11 at 09:11 PM.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-05-11, 09:08 PM
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A point to remember though is the number of the founding is determined by the 'round' of space marine creation, and not the source of the gene seed.

For example, the Aurora Chapter and the Avenging Sons both share Ultramarine gene seed but are not both second foundings of that chapter. The Aurora Chapter was created straight after the Heresy so is a second founding chapter, whilst the Avenging Sons weren't created until the thirty sixth millennium, and are a part of the nineteenth founding.

Confusing, eh?
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-05-11, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Whittaker View Post
A point to remember though is the number of the founding is determined by the 'round' of space marine creation, and not the source of the gene seed.

For example, the Aurora Chapter and the Avenging Sons both share Ultramarine gene seed but are not both second foundings of that chapter. The Aurora Chapter was created straight after the Heresy so is a second founding chapter, whilst the Avenging Sons weren't created until the thirty sixth millennium, and are a part of the nineteenth founding.

Confusing, eh?
To expand on the good Sir Whittaker's point- just because a Chapter is a scion of Guilliman doesn't mean they use Ultramarine stock as the basis for the Chapter, many Chapters that descend, distantly or otherwise, from the UM have been used to create more Astartes Chapters.
So whilst the UM themselves are said to have amongst the purest geneseed (alongside the Dark Angels, Iron Hands, and White Scars in my opinion) that doesn't mean their descendants do...
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-05-11, 10:09 PM
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So, the 26th is the one the Sable Swords were founded in? Good to know, thanks.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-06-11, 02:48 PM
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Does anyone have a website or info on when all the recored foundings took place?

"Loyalty is its own reward."
Lion El'Jonson.
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