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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-17-10, 06:50 PM Thread Starter
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Default Primarchs... if the Heresy did not Happen

Today I went thinking, what would have happened during the Great Crusade had the primarchs not fallen to Corruption. If chaos had somehow been kept at bay.

I got to thinking, and the first little thing that I started thinking about was what happened during the Great Crusade. And the fate of the lost legions and primarchs.

In my opinion, I think the Emperor would have slowly weeded out the primarchs he didn't want and thought were a danger to his Imperium.

Tell me what you think about what I just put down and what you think independently.

The Fallen Legions

All these legions I think would have basically met their end or disapearence.

1. The first thing I think the Emperor would have done was have Konrad Curze assasinated. Konrad Curze was already being sought out for his actions that were not the "Imperial Way" and not to mention he kicked Dorn's ass.

2. The second thing I think would have happened is that the Emperor would have forced Magnus to sit on the Throne and destroyed his legion with the wolves. After all his legion was the most acceptable to corruption.

3. Having enough of Angron's messed up legion, I think he would have tricked Angron into something similar like Istvaan killed him and the entirety of his crazy legion.

4. After a while, the Emperor finds out that the Lion's planet of Caliban is tainted. As a result, he pulverises the planet but due to the Lion's paranoia and intelligence, he is able to live in exile with the remainder of his legion. He escapes to the deepest corner of space in mystery. His paranoia keeping him alive but away from the Imperium forever.

5. The Emperor gets paranoid and sends the Wolves out to get them, afraid that the Lion is scheming with the dark powers. Instead of going out to destroy them, Russ goes out to find his lost friend and never returns.

6. I think after the first three, I think things would have settled down for a while. Then with the Great Crusade finished and with more time to push the Emperor's Imperial Doctrine, I believe some of the Primarchs who did not seat very well with the Emperor's divine Imperium would have been excommunicated. The one I think that suits this is Corax, and Fulgrim. Corax admits in Raven's Flight that he didn't sit well with the Imperial Way. And Fulgrim who seems to have had an open mind about thing would have fallen from the Emperors graces. As a result, they are excommunicated and their Primarchs are sooner or later assassinated. Bringing their legion under compliance. Or worse... destroyed as well.

7. Dorn, grows weary of sitting on Terra and looks at how Perturabo treats the populations he controls so mercilessly. He tells the Emperor like how he told on Konrad Curze and captures Perturabo to send him back to Terra. Perturabo beats the shit out of Dorn, destroys all the planets under his control in return for the Emperor and Dorn turning their back on him after all he had done. As a result he also runs away into exile. Cold and Merciless, in a fortress in the deepest corners of space where the Emperor's assassins can never find him.

The Successful Nine

1. Horus continues to become Warmaster and becomes the cliche hero of the Imperium.

2. Guilliman continues to venture off east and create the strongest part of the Imperium. He is given authority of the region in space. Only under the command of the Warmaster and the Emperor.

3. After the Great Crusade, Logar (if Logar had not been tainted and accepted his is embraced by the Emperor as being the most successful primarch and given control of the Western Empire. Only under the command of the Warmaster and the Emperor.

4. Vulkan retires to his planet ands seeks to help improve the conditions of his people.

5. Ferrus Manus becomes a huge member and leader of the Adeptus Mechanicus.

6. Sanguinus becomes a chief council to the Emperor and Horus. Basically Horus' champion.

7. Khan does the only thing he knows how to do, and thats fight the xenos threat... on bikes of course.

8. Mortarion is used to control most of the Imperial Navy against the xenos threat around the galaxy.

9. Alpharius.....Omegon.

10. Dorn just sits on Terra. Pointing his fingers at what his brothers do wrong. Kind of like an angry sports fan shouting at their team.

What are your thoughts? Doesn't have to be this complicated.
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-17-10, 08:36 PM
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It's an interesting theory.

My idea, assuming the Grand Crusade comes to a close (meaning major military actions have ended).

Horus: Becomes the Regent of Terra, heads up the Adapts Terra. This frees the Emperor to work on his next huge project.

Guilliman: His Legion disbands to assist with the building of Imperial Infrastructure. Becomes the biggest player in the Administratum.

Logar: Disbands his legion to spread the Imperial Way amongst the people of the Imperium.

Vulkan and Ferrus: Jointly head up the Mechanium. Their mastery of technology leads to rediscovery of old STC technology.

Dorn: Becomes the new Protector of the Imperium, focuses on the fortifaction of the Sol system and deployment of current Imperial Military assets.

Sanguinus: Becomes a moral compass for the current Imperium, keeping the focus on the Emperors dream of a brighter future for humanity. Works closly with Horus.

Magnus: Assists the Emperor with the completion of the Imperial Webway on Terra. With the Crusade over and the Emperors focus on the completion they creat a way to power the Webway entrance without the use of the Golden Throne. Decades are taken for this to happen. The Astronomicon is taken off line upon completion.

Alpharius/Omegon: Head up the Imperial Inquisition (The formal title of the Information gathering arm of the Imperial Forces).

Kruze: Becoming more and more unbalanced, the threat is addressed by Angron and Russ. The resulting unbalance bring Kruzes latent psy abilities and the results are catastrophic for all legions. Finally killed by Russ.

Angron: Killed by Kruze, his legion is left at a fraction of its former might.

Russ: The Space Wolves are left a shell of their former glory. Russ spends a decade dealing with the guilt of having killed 3 of his brothers. His legion rebuilds, and is dispatched to the Galatic East to assist Corax against an Alien threat.

Corax: He and the Raven Guard are dispatched to the east stretching the Imperiums boundries until he comes into contact with an alien force. Stuck in the fighting while the Imperium sends additional troops.

The Lion: Charged with the Expansion of the Imperium, he and his legion head to the Galatic North. World after world falls to his legion and the citizens of the mperium refer to him as "Warmaster." While the Lion is off world, the Imperium dispatchs the Thousand sons and Magnus to dispell the Choas taint on Caliban. The plan is succesful, though it costs the Thousand Sons dearly.

Khan: Spends his days hunting Xeno raiders in both the Webway and Material realm. Becomes head of the Ordo Xenos.

Mortarion: Sent to the Galatic South to continue the expansion, he heads east to assist Corax with his "Bug Problem."

Fulgrim: Disbands his legion to all cornors of the Imperium. They assist in the training of Imperial Troops and assist in bring the Rememberancers works to all parts of the Imperium.

Perturabo: After the ending of the Grand Crusade, the Emperor grants Perturabo the honor of building the Imperiums fortresses around the Imperium. Finally feeling like he is not being measured against Dorn he embraces the task and spends his days building bastions of order amongest the stars. First to uncover a Necron tomb world, he becomes the foremost authority on Necrons and leads the Imperium in uncovering their tomb worlds.
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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-17-10, 08:54 PM
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It is my contention that, having eliminated all potentially traitorous legions, Russ would retire and open the galaxies largest brewery where he would make a series of delicious ales and meeds which would be targeted to the now out of work marines of the imperium and advertised as Astartes Brew, the only brew for the few.

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Last edited by gen.ahab; 12-17-10 at 09:49 PM.
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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-18-10, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by gen.ahab View Post
It is my contention that, having eliminated all potentially traitorous legions, Russ would retire and open the galaxies largest brewery where he would make a series of delicious ales and meeds which would be targeted to the now out of work marines of the imperium and advertised as Astartes Brew, the only brew for the few.

Best idea I've heard yet

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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-18-10, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by gen.ahab View Post
It is my contention that, having eliminated all potentially traitorous legions, Russ would retire and open the galaxies largest brewery where he would make a series of delicious ales and meeds which would be targeted to the now out of work marines of the imperium and advertised as Astartes Brew, the only brew for the few.
And if the Sons are still around, he'd call them pansies for making wine.

Having a bunch of superhuman alcoholics is a really scary thought though. DUI takes on entirely different proportions if you're piloting a Thunderhawk instead of a car.

The human appendix. Proof of a higher power. A divine kill switch so to speak.

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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-18-10, 11:18 AM
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I don't really think that everyone is getting the whole idea of the Caliban situation and the Dark angels, They lived on a planet with many creatures that had been tainted or were monsterous enought that they thought they could be tainted, the planet itself wasn't some un-holy shrine to the Chaos gods. The whole fracture i the legion happened because some of them wern't allowed to come out and play with the other children.

Without the powers of chaos tainting the other legions and without them Forcing events to go like they did.

I think ultimately that the Great crusade would have just kept on going untill the forces of the imperium found a decent place to fight, ork homeworld, elder Webway maybe even the tyranid controlled systems.

They would have fought until they had conquered everything that they could find to conquer or until they found a foe they coudln't beat outright, someone/ something that would have matched the advantage that the astartes had. Most likely tyranids.

Curze and Khan would have been used against the Dark elder/ elder pirates treat. With Alpharius setting using his knowledge of hit and run attack and a vast informant network to help pinpoint the location of the attacks and where they came from.

Angron, Perturabo and Magnus would have been leading the fight against the Tyranids, with Magnus working towards a method of interupting the control nord queens and hive tyrants had over most of the tyranid hordes before angron got stuck in. Perturbo would have been developing any bases/ fortresses and ensuring that they can withstand the kind of onslaught that the Nids could throw. Omegon would have been unsing his forces to conduct hit and run attacks against the largest forces of Nids where a direct astartes attack might have sustained heavy casualties.

Sanguinius would have lead the much calmer and less crazy blood angels legion against the orks along with fulgrim and ferrus manus. Eventually almost wiping out the orks.

Roboute guilliman would have continued his work with the Codex astartes whilst still making Ultramar into a place for holy worship.

Horus, mortarion, lorgar and vulkan would have fought to cleanse the necrons from several worlds but would have found this slow going, eventually leading to the development of arrays designed to stop the Necron "Phasing", so a dead necron would remain dead, thus giving the astartes a finite amound of necrons to fight on each world.

Dorn would have spent much time improving the defenses of the core worlds of the imperium eventually going on to create a Battle moon, taking one of holy terra's moons and converting it into the fortress-monastery for the imperial fists, the battle moon would take the Imperial fists legion to where they needed to fight and contained the most powerful weapons of the imperium to be used in bombarding planets and event going as far as to destoy the necron worlds that could not be taken.

Corax and the Lion would have been the deffenders of the realm, they would have been charged with the protection of the outer worlds from whatever decided to attack, the lion would have made first contract with the Tau race.

Russ would have been the Emperah's loyal body guard, he would have been responsible for keeping the Emperah safe from attacks and (when needed) policing the other legions during disputes. More akin to the commissariate.

The Emperah...... He would have taken mankind back to the former glory it had during the "dark" age of technology. He would have been the person who saw that the Tau would make a fine addition to the Imperium and barterd a deal to let the Tau form part of the imperium in exchange for their military support the Tau would gain acces to some of the imperiums vast amount of resources (minerals and warp technology mainly) the Tau wuld be responsible from keeping the Imperium safe from their side of the galaxy.

Without the Emperah sat in the golden throne and mankind now following Science instead of religion the Imperium would eventually grow to be a vast giant of the universe, technology that is now rare would have been commonplace ( jet bikes, dreadnoughts etc) and eventually the Imperium would kick off with the remaining Elder, however after some chatting over tea and pudding they would have agreed to a truce. The elder would keep their section of space and mankind wouldn't bother them, but when one called for assistance the other would honour it and send forces.

Everyone has a purpose, just so happens mine is more of an example to others of what NOT to do.

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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-18-10, 11:34 AM
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Everyone is forgetting that the cult of the Emperor was on the rise even before the Heresy started.

No matter how it played out IMO the Imperium was destined to fracture into civil war.

Each Primarch was a mini-Caesar with their own personal Legion. The decision to tax worlds and hand over power to 'humans' was already pissing off some of them.

How Chaos got involved is unimportant and is a discussion for another time, but IMO the Great Crusade couldn't go on forever, civil war was inevitable for one reason or another. It just so happened that in the 'real' timeline, that reason was Chaos.

If the 'Heresy' didn't happen it would be another civil war of some kind, albiet maybe on a smaller or even perhaps a larger scale.
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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-18-10, 04:59 PM
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I completely agree with D-A-C. Night Haunter, Angron and Perturabo were all pretty much on the verge of treason anyway. Magnus would likely have fallen at some point, you can't completely rule Chaos out. Eventually there would have been a equally large 'Heresy' type civil war and we'd have wound up in much the same situation.

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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-18-10, 05:01 PM
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Without Horus a heresy would have been easily dealt with. It would even allow the emperor to wipe out all his lose ends publically without having to worry about any internal backlash from the other primarchs.

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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-19-10, 01:28 AM
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Indeed, the Night Lords, World Eaters, Iron Warriors and Thousand Sons may all have fallen eventually, but it would have been alot easier to deal with on an individual level. The reason the HH was so crippling was because of the magnitude of it
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