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post #1 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-12-10, 03:35 AM Thread Starter
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Default "Flawed" Legions

I wanted to know what people thought about the astartes who join/joined chaos. Do you guys believe these legions or astartes joined chaos because they were flawed? Was there something that was genetically problematic that made them join chaos? Please provide specifics.
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post #2 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-12-10, 03:39 AM
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I don't think they were flawed, I mean look at the Flesh Tearers, an incredibly flawed gene-seed, but still loyal to the Emperor. It's the Chaos Gods tempting them really, promising them untold power, and some people are just power-hungry.


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post #3 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-12-10, 03:52 AM
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I think in almost all cases it's not a genetic flaw in the gene-seed in the traitors (Thousand Sons stand out as the only example against this). However I think it's fairly clear that almost all of the legions who turned did so because of some kind of flaw, generally in the personality of their Primarch.

For Horus' flaws are his ambition, but also his inability to lead. He desires command and respect but is ultimately dependent on his father for guidance. I believe that similar character flaws can be found at the source of all of the betrayals in the Heresy except for two. Night Haunter and Angron are notable exceptions in that the stability of their minds is at least questionable (if not downright absent) and this in many ways characterized the fall of their legion.

The Primarchs each possess truly unique minds and mindsets and it was fairly inevitable that some of them would come to disagree with their brothers. That's not to say that the loyalists were without flaw however. Indeed it is likely that the flaws in the loyalist Primarchs caused a great deal of the animosity that lead up to the Heresy. Is it merely coincidence that several legions despise the Ultramarines above all others?

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post #4 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-12-10, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MEQinc View Post
)However I think it's fairly clear that almost all of the legions who turned did so because of some kind of flaw, generally in the personality of their Primarch.
I agree. Probably the biggest mistake the Emperor made was making the bond between a primarch and his marines so strong. This meant their first loyalty was to the primarch rather than the Emperor himself. This is particularly true of the marines from the primarchs homeworlds, were the future marines grew up with the primarchs as emperors in their right.

Indeed, two of the legions with the most extreme genetic flaws, BAs and SWs, are amongst the most loyal, because their primarchs were.
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post #5 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-12-10, 01:37 PM
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Indeed, the Primarch's were clearly flawed, Angron had nothing but a huge lust for blood, and the Emperor wasn't going to allow him to go ape-shit. The Space Wolves were ferocious as well, but their Primarch had a stable mind, and easily distinguished right from wrong.


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post #6 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-12-10, 01:54 PM
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[QUOTE=Professor Pumpkin;815290]Indeed, the Primarch's were clearly flawed, Angron had nothing but a huge lust for blood, and the Emperor wasn't going to allow him to go ape-shit. QUOTE]

I thought that was a resault of him being implaneted with a....."rage chip", don't know what it's called, on his planet.
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post #7 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-12-10, 01:58 PM
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A rage chip sounds like one of those times when the person in the chip shop pours heaps of salt and vinegar on one chip, and you go crazy after eating it.


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post #8 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-12-10, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by MEQinc View Post
The Primarchs each possess truly unique minds and mindsets and it was fairly inevitable that some of them would come to disagree with their brothers. That's not to say that the loyalists were without flaw however. Indeed it is likely that the flaws in the loyalist Primarchs caused a great deal of the animosity that lead up to the Heresy. Is it merely coincidence that several legions despise the Ultramarines above all others?
Several? The only ones I can think of are the Word Bearers and maybe the Alpha Legion. With the Word Bearers it was essentially a grudge started by Lorgar and mostly one-sided, and Alpharius mentions Guilliman in a rather indifferent way in Legion, merely stating that Guilliman did not like his methods. Alpharius never appeared to hate Guilliman or hold any grudge.

The rest of the Legions appeared to like the Ultramarines or were indifferent.
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post #9 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-12-10, 02:34 PM
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Well Horus was laid low by that blade on Davin, and was taken to the 'temple of the snakes'(something along those lines), so I think Chaos was able to corrupt him in his weakened state rather than a genetic flaw. He had his doubts before this thanks to Erebus, which made it even easier for chaos to corrupt.

Fulgrim I don't think would have turned were it not for the Laeran blade. I think he would have destroyed Horus' fleet when he had the chance had he not been handed the Laeran blade just before. So again, I don't think it was a genetic flaw.

Angron on the other hand seemed pretty genetically flawed, because of his personality. He was a mad-man, and then they implanted a 'rage chip' into him on his home planet making him even more bloodthirsty. I think we would have fallen to Khorne no matter what.

Nigh Haunter technically turned renegade before the rest of the Astartes. He wasn't corrupted by chaos I don't think, rather he was just the outcome of his childhood and personality. He might have been corrupted by his visions though.

Overall, I don't think any of the traitors had genetic deffects really. I think it was more of their upbringing, relationship with their fellow primarchs, and chaos corrupting them.

Had they not have been scattered, I don't think many would have turned to chaos, or at least not on the same scale.
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post #10 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-12-10, 03:21 PM
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Its nature vs nurture all over again. True, if some of the primarchs hadn't been raised as they were they might not have turned, then again some might have turned for different reasons.

When it comes down to it they were mostly all problem children,

Everyone has a purpose, just so happens mine is more of an example to others of what NOT to do.

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