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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-10-10, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
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Default The High Lords of Terra and the Space Marines

So, I did a cursory search, and received no matches on threads with "High Lords of Terra" in the title.

With that in mind, apologies if this has been covered already.

All that having been said...

The Adeptus Astartes has not had a representative on the High Lords of Terra since perhaps the death/stasis freezing of Guilliman.

Why?

Discuss, please.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-10-10, 04:39 PM
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I personally think that after Guilliman pretty much silenced all the other astartes with power (especially the other primarchs like Dorn) he was pretty much the only power in the council that really meant anything. After his "fatal injury" by Fulgrim, I believe that the astartes didn't really have anyone with that much influence to make it into the council. Therefore, ending the dynasty of astartes influence at that level.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-10-10, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
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Interesting.

I guess I always wondered why, if a Lord Commander Militant could rise/be selected from amongst other unaugmented Humans, a Chapter Master could not be either selected or voted in by something approaching a plurality of the Adeptus Astartes Chapters.

The requisite "respect structure" probably already kind of exists, if you think about it. It's implied in several novels that First Founding Chapters are accorded a great deal of respect, and that Second Founding Chapters like the Black Templars at least some times have feelings of superiority toward newer, "lesser" ones.

Given this, I doubt most Chapters would object if the High Lords of Terra were to vote in the First Founding Chapter Master that seems to most exemplify the virtues they require.

Personally, I think that when the Primarchs disappeared and the situation was such where no clear leader of the Astartes could arise (especially given the Codex Astartes), the High Lords were secretly relieved that they didn't have to share power with such superhuman zealots.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-10-10, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ckcrawford View Post
I personally think that after Guilliman pretty much silenced all the other astartes with power (especially the other primarchs like Dorn) he was pretty much the only power in the council that really meant anything. After his "fatal injury" by Fulgrim, I believe that the astartes didn't really have anyone with that much influence to make it into the council. Therefore, ending the dynasty of astartes influence at that level.
I think you've hit the nail of the head there. One of the main reasons for the Codex Astartes reforms in the first place was to remove the sheer amount of power and influence Astartes commanders/Primarchs had. It seems that he trusted himself with such power as he sat on the council of High Lords (IIRC), but after himself he percieved that no other Astartes or Primarchs could be trusted with such power.

Another reason could possibly be the inherent purpose of the Adeptus Astartes. They are the protectors of humanity, not their rulers. They do not administer or lord over humanity, they use their considerable power and influence solely to protect humanity from the countless threats that they face in the harsh reality of the forty-first millennium. The Emperor consistently stated that the Imperium was not his (and as a result not his logical successors; Primarchs/Astartes), but belonged equally to every man. I see this as a logical reason as to why Astartes (or at least representatives of the entire Astartes brotherhood) don't sit on the council of High Lords.



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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-10-10, 05:56 PM
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Seems like to me that the Astrates view themselves as direct servants to the eternal Emperor and not the bureaucrats of humanity, much like the Custodes who are rather aloof from the happenings of the Administratum and what not.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-10-10, 06:05 PM
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Another reason could possibly be the inherent purpose of the Adeptus Astartes. They are the protectors of humanity, not their rulers. They do not administer or lord over humanity, they use their considerable power and influence solely to protect humanity from the countless threats that they face in the harsh reality of the forty-first millennium. The Emperor consistently stated that the Imperium was not his (and as a result not his logical successors; Primarchs/Astartes), but belonged equally to every man. I see this as a logical reason as to why Astartes (or at least representatives of the entire Astartes brotherhood) don't sit on the council of High Lords.
Actually I think you hit the nail on the head right here!

I think a good analogy would be like God, Angels, & Humanity to the Emperor, Astartes, and Humanity. God created the angels to watch over humanity and protect them not to rule over them.


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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-11-10, 07:54 AM
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Actually I think you hit the nail on the head right here!

I think a good analogy would be like God, Angels, & Humanity to the Emperor, Astartes, and Humanity. God created the angels to watch over humanity and protect them not to rule over them.
I like this. Because we also have the Fallen Angels in the Chaos Marines.

Another answer imo could have something to do with the nature of the chapters. Given their autonomous nature and independant status, I doubt any single representitive could properly speak for the astartes as a whole. Some chapters are just too remote, secretive or untrusting to share any semblance of agenda with each other.

Added to the fact that none of them have any desire to be controlled by the adepts of Terra.


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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-12-10, 02:52 AM
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Given their autonomous nature and independant status, I doubt any single representitive could properly speak for the astartes as a whole. Some chapters are just too remote, secretive or untrusting to share any semblance of agenda with each other.
I believe this too is a factor. Other than attacking enemies of the imperium, they can't even get agree on anything much less get along with each other.


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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-12-10, 03:43 AM
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Isnt the Lord of the Custodes a Lord of Terra? and wouldnt he be considered a space marine?


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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-12-10, 04:52 AM
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Custodes are custodes. They have a totally different purpose than Space Marines.

That is, ensuring the continued safety of the Emperor.
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