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post #11 of 110 (permalink) Old 11-09-10, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gen.ahab View Post
10% of the UM forces would number about 25000. How do we get 1000 from this?
10,000 * 0.10 = 1000

Last edited by Todeswind; 11-09-10 at 03:25 AM.
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post #12 of 110 (permalink) Old 11-09-10, 03:19 AM
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A Legion, in roman military terms is a somewhat nebulous phrase but the constant use of latin terminology and military organization from the time of the early crusades of unification Roman empire would tend to indicate that the space marine legions were an loose reference to the period of Pax Romana in which a legion would have numbered somewhere between 9-12 thousand legionaries.

Like the codex separation of the space marines the Roman Legions were likewise separated into smaller legions of between 1000 and 5000 soldiers in the later years of the empire as legitimate fears of a military takeover rose.
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post #13 of 110 (permalink) Old 11-09-10, 03:24 AM
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Only problem with using ten thousand as your base for that figure is that most of the legions, Ultramarines included, were larger pre-heresy. They might have started off at ten thousand each, but many of the legions grew in size and the Ultramarines were no exception to this.

The number of chapters they go on to create in the second founding would likely go on to support this as well. They have fourteen known descendants in the second founding, adding themselves that would mean that they were at least fifteen thousand strong


Also, there is no need for you to double or multi-post; we have an edit button so please use it in the future when you have something further to add to your post like that.

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post #14 of 110 (permalink) Old 11-09-10, 03:30 AM
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Even if the legions doubled or even tripled in size following their creation that would leave only something in the realm of 2000-3000 marines once all was said and done.
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post #15 of 110 (permalink) Old 11-09-10, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todeswind View Post
10,000 * 0.10 = 1000
So, you just pulled that number out your ass because it fits what you think, not because it is actually supported by fluff? Alrighty then. No. The UM legion numbered around 250000. Not 10k.

Last edited by gen.ahab; 11-09-10 at 03:36 AM.
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post #16 of 110 (permalink) Old 11-09-10, 03:38 AM
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So, you just pulled that number out your ass because it fits what you think, not because it is actually supported by ANY fluff? Alrighty then. No. The UM legion numbered around 250000. That is two,five,zero,zero,zero..... zero. Not 10k.
And where praytell did you pull 250,000 from?

The term Legion actually has a numerical value attached to it in terms of actual size and disposition. Historically speaking a legion would have topped out at about 9-15ish thousand troops which is where I came to assume that Games Workshop was using the word in its technical military term especially considering the similarities in the division of the space marine chapters into smaller military units after a period of unrest much in the way the actual roman legions were.

That being said my number must be low as there were 14 separate ultramarine root chapters in the second founding. Assuming that successor chapters start at full strength.

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post #17 of 110 (permalink) Old 11-09-10, 03:41 AM
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Ahab, that number was not pulled out of Todeswind's ass, that was about the size each legion began at when the crusade started (I believe.) But over time, and especially after each legion was re-united with its primarch, their numbers increased. For some legions this number swelled more than others, legions like the Ultramarines and Luna Wolves or Word Bearers are prime examples of such a thing.


As far as the Ultramarines are concerned though, Ahab is correct in that by the time the Heresy broke out they numbered more than two hundred thousand. It was yet another reason why Horus wanted Guilliman and his legion as far away from the fighting as possible, imagine how much better off the loyalists would have been if two hundred thousand more marines, led by a tactical mind the equal of Horus, stood in the way of the nine traitor legions and their collective forces?

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post #18 of 110 (permalink) Old 11-09-10, 03:45 AM
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@Tod,
The good Baron(mod), darkreever(mod), CoTE(a fluff guru), and the collected visions or some other piece of GW fiction.

@darkreever,
Ah, well then it is not total horse shit. Learn something new everyday I suppose.

Last edited by gen.ahab; 11-09-10 at 03:47 AM.
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post #19 of 110 (permalink) Old 11-09-10, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by gen.ahab View Post
@Tod,
The good Baron(mod), darkreever(mod), CoTE(a fluff guru), and the collected visions or some other piece of GW fiction.

@darkreever,
Ah, well then it is not total horse shit. Learn something new everyday I suppose.
The coffee table book with all the pantings in it? It's been ages since I read that thing.
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post #20 of 110 (permalink) Old 11-09-10, 03:51 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkreever View Post
As far as the Ultramarines are concerned though, Ahab is correct in that by the time the Heresy broke out they numbered more than two hundred thousand. It was yet another reason why Horus wanted Guilliman and his legion as far away from the fighting as possible, imagine how much better off the loyalists would have been if two hundred thousand more marines, led by a tactical mind the equal of Horus, stood in the way of the nine traitor legions and their collective forces?
I agree. If you really think what the Ultramarines were capable in the Heresy, its actually quite interesting. I think that in both Collective Vision, and The First Heretic they numbered 250,000 marines. Thats pretty incredible considering that the next legion was the Word Bearers with 100,000. If thats true, thats like having the power of three legions.

In a way, though three legions were pretty much whipped out in the course of things, the traitor legions were pretty much the underdog in the whole thing.
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