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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-07-10, 08:15 PM
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60% is correct- the Legion lost just over 90% of it's Astartes in the Heresy and Scouring (mainly the scouring), so they've gone from 24,000 to 600,000 rather than 250,000 to 600,000.

Obviously most of those Chapters who use Guilliman's geneseed don't get it from the Ultramarines, but more usually from one of the Primogenitors.
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-07-10, 08:26 PM
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Ah yes of course. Due to the number of second founding Chapters founded following the Scouring, we can deter that they lost 90% of their Legion numbers during the Scouring. Even more of an achievement then considering now 60% of all Astartes bear Guilliman's geneseed.



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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-07-10, 08:41 PM Thread Starter
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thanks for the anwers,
you mention that the UM are responsible for 60 % of the gene seed that does not mean that 60 % of the marines comes from the same recruitement pool as the original recruitement pool of the ultramarines,
how do you account for the space wolves numbers there were 100 K recruiting from Fenris (that is a question, not something I think I read)?
as for the splitting, there is no reason to split the chapters that would not help, the intention would be to allow them to grow and in say 1000 years the chapter size should be at 2000.
the crimson fists for example, they are rapidly increasing their number,

and again 2M might just tip the balance,

but I do not want to make this into a yes-no discussion, I accept your arguments and acknowledge that there will never be an intention towards 2 K marines/chapter,
too bad
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-07-10, 08:48 PM
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The high numbers of Space Wolves during the Great Crusade is probably due to many of them being Terran born, like all of the Legions to begin with. The rest of the Legions numbers would have been made up when their respective Primarchs were found.
All of the first Space Marines were Terran, maybe when the Emperor 'died' the secrets to making non Fenris born aspirants into SM's was lost so now they are all recruited from Fenris.

Also, to grow a chapter by a thousand over a thousand years would require the Chapter being fairly inactive during that time, one hell of a loss for whatever area of the galaxy they are responsible for.

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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-07-10, 08:57 PM Thread Starter
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so you are saying that one planet=terra, could recruit > 10(0) K marines, well that would solve the problem.
I agree on the second point
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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-07-10, 09:19 PM
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When the Emperor was first creating the Primarchs and Space Marines Terra was at war, the whole planet was fighting against the big E's attempts at unifying the world. Much of Terra's population was waring tribes, ideal for Space Marine recruitment.
Terra today is a huge shrine to bureaucracy and the Emperor. The population is huge but probably not the sort of stock that is any good for creating Space Marines.

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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-07-10, 09:57 PM
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how do you account for the space wolves numbers there were 100 K recruiting from Fenris (that is a question, not something I think I read)?
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Originally Posted by normtheunsavoury View Post
The high numbers of Space Wolves during the Great Crusade is probably due to many of them being Terran born, like all of the Legions to begin with. The rest of the Legions numbers would have been made up when their respective Primarchs were found.
All of the first Space Marines were Terran, maybe when the Emperor 'died' the secrets to making non Fenris born aspirants into SM's was lost so now they are all recruited from Fenris.
That, and the fact that the Space Wolves no doubt took massive casualties during the Burning of Prospero, the Age of Darkness (including the Alpha Legion ambush) and the subsequent Scouring. Then with Russ (and the Emperor) gone the method of recruiting Astartes became more troublesome and difficult, so numbers would not have been replenished as quickly as they were during the Great Crusade. You could also cite the further degeneration of the Space Wolves' geneseed as another troublesome factor.

Now add the fact that the Space Wolves have been fighting constant wars for the last 10,000 years and it seems justified that they cannot easily replenish their numbers let alone increase them.



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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-07-10, 10:20 PM
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I seem to remember seeing somewhere that the SW already have way over 1000 marines, I cant find a sauce for it so may have dreamt it up. Anyone else remember this?

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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-07-10, 10:51 PM
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It's true, Snoopy. Not sure about 'way above', but they're usually above the thousand mark. This is somewhat mitigated by their total lack of successors, of course.

Again, I think the Imperium would prefer to just make a lot of new Chapters rather than bolster existing ones and rewrite the sacred Codex Astartes (though were all the required powered armour comes from is anybody's guess...)
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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-07-10, 11:01 PM
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They have 12 great companies. Early games such as space marine had a space wolf great company as slightly larger than a hundred marines, so you can see they are 20-25% larger. However I havent read the new codex and this may have changed in the last 20 or so years
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