Gene seeds - Page 3 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
40k Fluff Discuss GW background material here. All those bits in the Codex that aren't stat blocks or special rules. Post your custom character/chapter/army background in our Homebrew Fluff subforum!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-08-10, 06:52 AM
Senior Member
 
aboytervigon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,736
Reputation: 1
Default

surgery is preformed on them but in the space of the year also there scouts are space marines that haven't worked there way to a tactical squad.


My Deceiver is a shard of the true thing and yet has killed
Draigo
Lysander and countless marines
aboytervigon is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-08-10, 07:04 AM
Junior Member
 
Eerie's Avatar
Eerie's Flag is: Israel
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Nose of Horror
Posts: 10
Reputation: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pzycho Leech View Post
When the Emperor Created the Primarchs, he Implanted them all with certain of his own Charateristics.
So the Emperor could spit acid?
Eerie is offline  
post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-11-10, 10:23 PM
Senior Member
 
Quozzo's Avatar
Quozzo's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: England
Posts: 198
Reputation: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eremite
I don't think Blood Angels take a year to become full marines unless they keep opening those caskets to perform surgey. Also, they have scouts, don't they? (I've not seen their recent Codex, so feel free to correct me.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BA 5th ed
From the Apothecarion the aspirants will be taken to the Hall of Sarcophagi and each will be placed within a mighty golden sarcophagus. Life support nodes are attached to them and for the next year they will be fed intravenously with a mixture of nutrients and the Blood of Sanguinius while the gene-seed does its work
so to reiterate, the Blood Angels Exsanguination only takes 1 year to complete

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eremite
I believe the progenoids actually contain what are essentially multipotent cells that will grow into each of the SM organs - this means it may be more than 'Two for one' with regards to marines. This makes sense because, well, there are two progenoid glands implanted... So the one marine makes two clearly doesn't work.
in fact, one marine does indeed make two. One prognoid gland is implanted in the chest, the other in the neck. They react to the other organs in the body and produce germ cells in the progniod glands that can be harvested and grown into the organs ripe for implanting into another marine.

Chapter Library | Chapter Name Creator

Phoenix Angels

Your unique, just like everyone else.
Quozzo is offline  
 
post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-12-10, 08:04 PM
Senior Member
 
Arkeoptrix's Avatar
Arkeoptrix's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Denver
Posts: 160
Reputation: 1
Default

I took the seed part too literally and thought it looked like a pumpkin seed or something inside the body but it was full of stem cells to grow more of the special organs...
Arkeoptrix is offline  
post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-14-10, 03:46 PM
Member
 
Darkoan's Avatar
Darkoan's Flag is: Australia
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 71
Reputation: 1
Default

Im confused.

The gene-seeds 'mature' in 5/10 years respectively, at which time theyre inserted (as a 'zygote' its referred to as) into an aspiring SM (from a recruiting world, with average run of the mill homo sapien DNA).

Its logical the other 18 organs are produced from the pluripotent cells contained in the mature gene-seeds. So essentially organs using DNA from the previous SM.

But
Lexi states "The glands absorb genetic material from the other implanted organs. When they have matured each gland will have developed a single gene-seed corresponding to each of the zygotes which have been implanted into the Marine. "

Meaning the geneseeds are absorbing genetic material from... the organs that have the exact same genetic material.

What do the gene seeds actually absorb thats any different? They are 'maturing' in what way? I have missed something here, havent I?
Darkoan is offline  
post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-14-10, 04:31 PM
Mob
Senior Member
 
Mob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 151
Reputation: 4
Default

Progenoid glands absorb genetic material from the organs of the individual marine concerned.

Culturing organ zygotes from progenoid glands is the only known way to make space marine implants. Each progenoid is a one-shot deal, so you have to go through the whole process each time to make new zygotes. So even though the new progenoid (created from a gene-seed gestated by the old one) is essentially just gathering the (largely) same material all over again from a new body, you have to do it on order to create more space marines.

It's not exactly the same material each time, as the different experiences of the marine will have an effect on the development of the genetic material. There do not appear to be any particular advantages from this however - perhaps one could say genetic memory is - as the whole process tempts genetic degredation...which we have plentiful examples of actually happening.

It takes between 5 and 10 years for the progenoids to "mature" (collect enough genetic material to make removing them worthwhile - remove them before this and you've just wasted everybody's time and resources).

Aside: Why don't all Space Marines just have them removed as soon as this period is up? Unknown. However, it is possible progenoids get 'better' as they get older (much like wine etc) as they have had longer to absorb genetic material - thus raising the chances of the zygotes being cultured from the progenoid successfully.

Also, a long implantation may have something to do with the 'genetic memories' some Marines possess.
Mob is offline  
post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-14-10, 07:08 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,094
Reputation: 1
Default

Sorry Mob, but how would the experiences of the Marine affect the genetic material in his Progenoids? That is disproved Lamarkian evolution. Essentially, the genetic material found in a Progenoid is static- this is why there is a 5% tithe of a Chapter's Geneseed by the AdMech, to make sure that this genetic information isn't changing; if it is changing, then they Tech Priests will have to step in to see why and maybe do something to stop it.
As others have noted, the Geneseed is almost exactly like its name. Inside the Progenoids are small collections of cells representing each of the implants that make a Marine, a Marine. This will included its own, Progenoid-making, information.
When these cells are taken out of the Progenoid they can be cultured and grown into the new organs which will, in turn, be implanted into a new Scout/Neophyte.
In one of the HH books, Astellan, a Terran DA, talks about having his Progenoids removed years ago because they had 'matured', and the way he talks about it suggests that this isn't unheard of and is, in fact, standard procedure. I recall him, or another book, saying that it takes the Progenoids about 20 years to mature. Now, if this process of taking mature Progenoids from Astartes has continued into the 'present' 40k day, then it would really help to increase the rate at which Astartes can be made, as you can be getting on with making a new one whilst the Progenoid donor is still alive, rather than waiting for him to die. However, such a thing is by no means guaranteed to still happen, what with the debasement of the implantation procedure into meaningless ritual and dogma.
Hope that at least adds to the conversation!

GFP
Giant Fossil Penguin is offline  
post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-14-10, 08:56 PM
Mob
Senior Member
 
Mob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 151
Reputation: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant Fossil Penguin View Post
Sorry Mob, but how would the experiences of the Marine affect the genetic material in his Progenoids?
There's two ways to look at this (although I'm admittedly off into shaky/speculative ground now, so it's all good with me if this sounds like nonsense to others.)

The first is that genetic memory exists; although the only examples I can think of right now may have more to do with Chaotic influences than the normative gene-seed process. Two genetic 'lines' that transmit memories are Sanguinius and that silver-eyed Imp Fist Captain...Aleph? So in this case "experiences" means memories and feelings that get imprinted onto the genetic material somehow and can then in turn be experienced by the person implanted with organs cultured from that material. Kind of like an weird super-Omophagea effect, I guess...

The second is the more direct experience like standing about in radiation/chaotic energies/that cave on Dagobah. This could have alter the genetic structure of the marine/his organs, thus introducing a mutation into the genetic material harvested over the progenoid. Depending on the seriousness of the mutation, the next marine could turn out to be a Chaos marine waiting to happen, have bones that keep growing throughout his life or be just the first step in a degradation that 3000 years later means no-one in his line can spit acid anymore.
Mob is offline  
post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-14-10, 11:57 PM
Senior Member
 
Quozzo's Avatar
Quozzo's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: England
Posts: 198
Reputation: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkoan View Post
Im confused.

The gene-seeds 'mature' in 5/10 years respectively, at which time theyre inserted (as a 'zygote' its referred to as) into an aspiring SM (from a recruiting world, with average run of the mill homo sapien DNA).

Its logical the other 18 organs are produced from the pluripotent cells contained in the mature gene-seeds. So essentially organs using DNA from the previous SM.

But
Lexi states "The glands absorb genetic material from the other implanted organs. When they have matured each gland will have developed a single gene-seed corresponding to each of the zygotes which have been implanted into the Marine. "

Meaning the geneseeds are absorbing genetic material from... the organs that have the exact same genetic material.

What do the gene seeds actually absorb thats any different? They are 'maturing' in what way? I have missed something here, havent I?
Progniods are extracted from a marine (one in the neck and one in the chest) a progniod contains germ cells which the 18 organs are artificially cultured from (somehow) the 18 organs are planted in a brand spanken new space marine (i think the 2 progniods count as one organ) the newly implanted progniod responds to the presence of the other implants in the marine and creates germ cells corresponding to those organs. rinse repeat.

I think zygots are just another name for progniods as theres no mention of them in the 5th ed SM codex

Chapter Library | Chapter Name Creator

Phoenix Angels

Your unique, just like everyone else.
Quozzo is offline  
post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-15-10, 05:31 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,094
Reputation: 1
Default

Mob.
The first example you give is something that has gone from a Primarch onto his genesons. The exact nature of the Primarchs is still quite fuzzy, but we do know that they are totally bound up with the warp; it's what empowers them and gives them their abilities. For one of them to pass on memories, such as with Sanguinius, sure, why not? We've seen it with the BA. But no other Primarch ever did this. So I think we can discount memories or experiences being passed-on by geneseed when it comes to your 'everyday' Astartes.
The second example is direct genetic damage by an outside influence. It's not 'the Marine performs an action and that action is imprinted onto the genetics somehow'.
Risking going too OT, I'll try to explain further. When the mechanism of evolution was first being discussed, noone knew about genetics, at least not enough to say with any certainty what was going in. One man, called Lamarck (sp?) thought that everyday activities that changed the individual would be passed on. The famous example is that a Giraffe stretches up to get at leaves high-up in a tree, causing its neck to stretch just a little bit, with this slightly lengthened neck being passed on to its offspring. It doesn't work that way. Certainly there can be genetic damage in an individual which changes the genes it passes on, but that will have nothing to do with that individual's routine and how it lives its life.
The same with Marines. His geneseed mught be affected by outside influences such as Chaos, radiaition or that cave on Dagobah (erm, hang on?!), but that will just be genetic damage. Things like his ability at H2H combat, or ranged ability, or loyalty, or speed, or quickness-of-thought will not be passed on because that Geneseed doesn't have anything to do with those things, those things coming directly from the Marine's own genes. All the Geneseed does is grow more Organs to implant into new Marines. It might be best to look at it like a set of parasites, or even symbiotes, living alongside the Marine's body and interacting with it, but totally seperate in its life-cycle.
Blimey!

GFP
Giant Fossil Penguin is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Warhammer 40K > 40k Fluff

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome