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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 11-06-10, 12:03 AM Thread Starter
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Default Questions on the Scouring

So the book i'm writing right now centers on the first years of the Grey Knights chapter and i just need to know a few things about the Scouring.
1. The Codex Astartes was written during this time.
2. The Imperial Fists did hold out against conforming to the Codex until they were fired upon by the Imp Navy. Was this before or after the Iron Cage incident?
3. The Grey Knights themselves were not founded until during the 2nd founding, obviously after the Codex was written. When exactly did the 2nd founding occur?
Any help would be appreciated.

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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 11-06-10, 12:10 AM
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1. The Codex Astartes was written during this time.
No, if memory serves the codex was written after the scouring occurred and not before or during it.

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3. The Grey Knights themselves were not founded until during the 2nd founding, obviously after the Codex was written. When exactly did the 2nd founding occur?
Likely right after the scouring

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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 11-06-10, 12:18 AM Thread Starter
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So when does the iron cage incident occur? Before or after the 2nd founding or during the scouring? And when exactly did Rogal Dorn die?

Finished: Too Much Love Will Kill You (working title), an original fiction novel. Working on: Second draft of Too Much Love, and the first draft of A Winter's Tale (working title).
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 11-06-10, 12:31 AM
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The Iron Cage incident occurred during the break up of the Legions.

The Black Templars, Crimson Fists, and Soul Drinkers had already been formed but there were still too many Imperial Fists for a Codex Chapter and Dorn knew that the veterans amongst his troops wouldn't willingly form a Chapter so he took them into battle against Perturabo's Legion knowing there would be heavy losses.

After the Iron Cage incident the Imperial Fists went into seclusion for a few years and reemerged fiercely adherent to the Codex.

Edit: The issuing of the Codex and the 2nd Founding are one and the same event, the break up of the Legions was a requisite of the Codex Astartes- the only part of it that was compulsory.

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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 11-06-10, 12:33 AM Thread Starter
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Okay thanks.

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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 11-08-10, 03:49 PM
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Baron,

If I recall correctly, the Iron Cage incident happened pretty much immediately after the formation of the Black Templars and other Successors, right? And that first break-up (the one before the Iron Cage) occurred as a result of those impending hostilities with the Imperium at large, yes?

Just curious.
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 11-08-10, 04:04 PM
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If I recall correctly, the Iron Cage incident happened pretty much immediately after the formation of the Black Templars and other Successors, right? And that first break-up (the one before the Iron Cage) occurred as a result of those impending hostilities with the Imperium at large, yes?
No and no; the Iron Cage incident occurred about the time of the implementation of the codex astartes, not after it. At the time, Dorn felt the Imperial Fists to large to willingly break up into the chapters. Like Dorn, the fists themselves had taken the wounds of the Emperor to be a personal failing, though not to his degree, and until they had redeemed themselves, breaking up would be impossible. They had to be redeemed as Imperial Fists, nothing less would be acceptable.

The Iron Cage was the chance for this, a fight that would most definitely lead to much of the legion being wiped out as they took with them the vengeance so dearly needed. That Dorn underestimated Perturabo and the Iron Warrios like he did, thats what led to it becoming what it is known for. (Though always remember, despite everything Dorn and the Fists fought their way through overwhelming numbers and situations they were not equipped to deal with.)


It is very likely that Dorn had been so blinded that he fully intended to wipe out his entire legion, and the actions of Perturabo, and then Guilliman, are the only things that prevented this.



Why the Fists broke up is a combination of things. As mentioned, they needed redemption before it was to happen. But what got them to actually submit to the action of breaking up the legion would be when Guilliman played his hand and showed that he was fully ready to plunge the shattered Imperium into a second civil war to ensure that no one leader/warlord/tyrant was ever able to command so many with such influence.

Say what you will of that action, personally I think Guilliman did the right thing and in a noble way.

Damnation is paved on good intentions; subtle and sugar coated or blunt and honest
A hero is someone who steps up when everyone else backs down.
Popularity is what people strive for when they lack the strength to be themselves.


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