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post #11 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-11-10, 10:23 PM
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A blade that if memory serves would love to turn on him should he release its power, theirs a big deus ex machina just waiting to happen there. And what if the chaos gods get bored with him, or the fact that in 13 black crusades of fail he still hasnt even managed to take Cadia, let alone kill the Emperor like he keeps promising to do. He isn't immortal, i still think the greatest imperial heroes could give him a good fucking run for his money or potentially beat him.
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post #12 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-12-10, 06:05 AM
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A blade that if memory serves would love to turn on him should he release its power, theirs a big deus ex machina just waiting to happen there. And what if the chaos gods get bored with him, or the fact that in 13 black crusades of fail he still hasnt even managed to take Cadia, let alone kill the Emperor like he keeps promising to do. He isn't immortal, i still think the greatest imperial heroes could give him a good fucking run for his money or potentially beat him.
He did take Cadia for a bit during the 13th crusade, or at least established a decent foothold for a while. Also, the Chaos Gods currently AREN'T bored with him. They're still fuelling him with some of their power. Saying that the Chaos Gods might get bored with Abaddon one day doesn't really apply to comparing him to others in his current state because otherwise you might as well say, 'What if Calgar gets so old that he needs to shove a stick up his ass to stand up straight?' Then he obviously won't be able to take on Abaddon.

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post #13 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-12-10, 09:57 AM
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Yes but the question was on todays heroes, not todays in a few centuries when they are too old to carry on. Calgars still young, as are most of them save Dante who is still kicking massive amount of ass. The chaos gods could abandon Abaddon at any moment, they are fickle and random like that after all
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post #14 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-12-10, 10:07 AM
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Saying that the chaos god might get bored, but isnt he brining the biggest fight with the most slaughter to them?

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post #15 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-12-10, 10:25 AM
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A blade that if memory serves would love to turn on him should he release its power
Regardless, Abaddon wielding Drach'nyen is still clearly much more of an advantage than disadvantage. It is one of the most powerful weapons in 40k lore, one that largely increases the Despoiler's already formidable power.

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And what if the chaos gods get bored with him
The point is they havn't, not even after ~10,000 years. Yes the Chaos Gods are fickle and irrational, but if they havn't abadoned him thus far, I don't think they are likely to do so any time soon, especially considering the widespread devastation caused to the material realm by the recent 13th Black Crusade.

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or the fact that in 13 black crusades of fail he still hasnt even managed to take Cadia, let alone kill the Emperor like he keeps promising to do.
This isn't really the place to discuss it, but in my opinion not a single one of his crusades have failed or been failures.



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post #16 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-12-10, 03:40 PM
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This isn't really the place to discuss it, but in my opinion not a single one of his crusades have failed or been failures.
From what little there is on fluff on Abaddon, at least he doesn't think the crusades have been complete failures. In the overall scheme of things, perhaps the crusades have not been failures as to some suggest. Both representatives of two other legions, (Talos from the Night Lords) and (Honsou of the Iron Warriors) both regard Abaddon and his crusades as failures. More so though due to their Legions suffering as a consequence though.

I'm really not sure if the Imperium generally has Heroes that are skilled enough to fight the powers of chaos. Lets face it, these traitor legions are pretty old and definitely more veteran than most of the astartes in the 40k realm. I think more or less though it has been the Imperium ability in wearing these legions down that has been their ultimate triumph. This ties into my previous paragragh. We can tell more with the Night Lords that their supplies and abilities to maintain their legion is failing. Abaddon's crusade is just dragging their legion down. With the Iron Warriors, Honsou seems to have taken his own crusade regarding Abaddon as a failure. The rest/most of the Iron Warriors basically just paid a toll to keep from joining his crusade. The Word Bearers seem to have something going on with their own agenda; another purging within their ranks and perhaps the chaos legions. So Abaddon is losing the support of three legions. Perhaps not entirely, but definitely a heart felt loss.

To be honest, Abaddon must win his foothold in Cadia to gain further support or he will suffer.
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post #17 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-12-10, 04:54 PM
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The contained within has nothing to do with the thread, its about Abaddon and the crusades. Thou hast been warned!





As for the OP, there are some heroes of the Imperium who could stand up against some of the various chaos champions. Stand up to, not win mind you. Someone like Tigirius or Mephiston might be able to go toe to toe with the likes of Ahriman or Typhus but fact remains that they have a mastery above the loyalists and do not need to worry so much about control or restraint.

Fact is though, they are still much younger and much less experienced in comparison; your basic legion marine might easily be the match of two, three, or even four loyalist marines

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post #18 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-12-10, 06:10 PM
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I dunno, a Aureullian killed/banished Angron, Dante supposedly killed a bloodthirster(could be a myth though) the Sanguinator defeinetly killed a bloodthirster, a Space Wolf put up a good fight against Magnus, Calgar killed an Avatar. The big Astartes heroes have pulled off some pretty amazing feats, i wouldn't count them all out against Abaddon, i mean come on, who has he really killed of any significance? sure he rallies the chaos troops and makes really good plans........well 13 crusades of fail,
How has he failed? The only one that I can think of as a failure was the First, and even then Dorn was lost during the fighting and he was able to grab Drach'nyen. In the Seventh he defeated the Blood Angels so badly they were unable to recover the bodies of their fallen form his grasp. The Gothic War was pretty much about the Blackstones and he achived appearantly enough to begin his next phase. The 13th was inconsclusive.

We dont' know how the other Black Crusades turned out for him or even what his plans or objectives even were.

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but he's never gone out and killed some uber heroe or beast of any kind that i can remember reading. Could be wrong but still, i bet Dante, Mephiston, Calgar, Blackmane, Grimmnar could give him a good fight, if not beat him
He one-shotted a three meter adamantium gate. In his Index Astartes he was called unstoppable.

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At El'Phanor, his forces assaulted the Citadel of the Kromarch; a fastness built with all the cunning its designers could muster. It was pierced with but a single portal, a mighty gate of adamantium, fully three metres thick, but Abaddon cared not. He boasted that he would feast on the Kromarch's kin and led the charge of the gate himself. The Citadel was a masterpiece of military engineering and barely one in ten of Abaddon's warriors survived to reach the gate. To either side, enemy weapons prevented their retreat, but Abaddon laughed, raising his sword wreathed in black flames high above his head and smote the gate a blow that smashed it to splinters and shook the very foundations of the citadel. As Abaddon had promised, he and his warriors feasted upon the Kromarch.
That is a very impressive physcial feat. Anyone think that Grimnar or Calgar could one-shot something like that?

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A blade that if memory serves would love to turn on him should he release its power, theirs a big deus ex machina just waiting to happen there.
Maybe not, in 3.5 he was the only Chaos champion who mastered his dameon weapon compltetely.

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And what if the chaos gods get bored with him, or the fact that in 13 black crusades of fail he still hasnt even managed to take Cadia, let alone kill the Emperor like he keeps promising to do.
Again, how has he failed?

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Originally Posted by ckcrawford View Post
From what little there is on fluff on Abaddon, at least he doesn't think the crusades have been complete failures. In the overall scheme of things, perhaps the crusades have not been failures as to some suggest. Both representatives of two other legions, (Talos from the Night Lords) and (Honsou of the Iron Warriors) both regard Abaddon and his crusades as failures. More so though due to their Legions suffering as a consequence though.

I'm really not sure if the Imperium generally has Heroes that are skilled enough to fight the powers of chaos. Lets face it, these traitor legions are pretty old and definitely more veteran than most of the astartes in the 40k realm. I think more or less though it has been the Imperium ability in wearing these legions down that has been their ultimate triumph. This ties into my previous paragragh. We can tell more with the Night Lords that their supplies and abilities to maintain their legion is failing. Abaddon's crusade is just dragging their legion down. With the Iron Warriors, Honsou seems to have taken his own crusade regarding Abaddon as a failure. The rest/most of the Iron Warriors basically just paid a toll to keep from joining his crusade. The Word Bearers seem to have something going on with their own agenda; another purging within their ranks and perhaps the chaos legions. So Abaddon is losing the support of three legions. Perhaps not entirely, but definitely a heart felt loss.

To be honest, Abaddon must win his foothold in Cadia to gain further support or he will suffer.
Not quite. Talos's opinions do not reflect the entire Night Lords Legion. In Soul Hunter we meet some Night Lords who fully supprt Abaddon and even one who has actually joined the Black Legion. The same applies for Honsou, he does not speak for the entire IV Legion.

Not to mention Abaddon appears to have plenty of support. The Chaos codex talks about how Champions and warbands from all legions are clamoring to join Abaddon because of his sucesses.

Last edited by Gree; 10-12-10 at 06:22 PM.
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post #19 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-12-10, 06:48 PM
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Not quite. Talos's opinions do not reflect the entire Night Lords Legion. In Soul Hunter we meet some Night Lords who fully supprt Abaddon and even one who has actually joined the Black Legion. The same applies for Honsou, he does not speak for the entire IV Legion.
Talos and Honsou do not speak for the entirety of their legions, this much is true, but you can see that these legions have their own agenda as well. For example, The Night lords as an entire legion in their persuit of the recording of their lost primarch went searching for it. The Iron Warriors have paid Abaddon in captured geneseed to remain silent (for the most part) in Abaddon's crusade. Not to mention Talos has great influence in his legion.

Quote:
Not to mention Abaddon appears to have plenty of support. The Chaos codex talks about how Champions and warbands from all legions are clamoring to join Abaddon because of his sucesses.
This much is true as well, though as I said this crusade must prevail in order to maintain their support. It seems that the chaos astartes are mastly outnumbered. All they really have is warbands of the first legions and I could only find a few renegade chapters comparbily to the amount of loyalist chapters fighting against them. Who is to say they are at full strength too. The violaters have lost over a third of their chapter of which they will probably never know what has happened to them. The Night Lords for example are suffering from lost numbers and loss of equipment like astartes armor. I can only imagine these rengade chapters and warbands are suffering from the same problems. Theres a point where they will have to look to their well being of their warbands before Abaddon's crusade.
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post #20 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-12-10, 06:55 PM
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Fine i give up, you've proved a point, Abaddon really is just infinitly boring to me now, what's the point in a villain who is for all intents and purposes immortal, can smash down gates, nigh on wipe out chapters. Fuck him, 30k abbadon may have been interesting, but he currently to me is possibly the most boring character in 40k.

So in other words, long answer to the OP? read the thread, short answer, no, primarch banishing, avatar slaying, bloodthirster arsekickers and the like are no match for him, and i dearly wish i was being sarcastic in that statement, unfortunately i'm not
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