A few misty areas of the Chaos Fluff - Page 4 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
40k Fluff Discuss GW background material here. All those bits in the Codex that aren't stat blocks or special rules. Post your custom character/chapter/army background in our Homebrew Fluff subforum!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #31 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-14-10, 12:32 AM Thread Starter
ROT
Senior Member
 
ROT's Avatar
ROT's Flag is: Djibouti
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Essex, that shit hole you drive through to get to london.
Posts: 2,363
Reputation: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella Cadente View Post

and if its written in the fluff then its not people believing he missed, its people KNOWING he missed because its there in black and white, almost set in stone, and since this is talking about fluff it applies quite heavily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella Cadente View Post
there is no "good" or "bad", as I said before
in the 41st millennium there is no black and white, only shades of grey.
Quite Contradictory, I'd like to see you explain this one.

Note: For the sake of Mods reading this, i'm not making drama, i enjoy heated Discussions.

The guy who wishes he never sold all his warhammer. Haha. Such is life.
ROT is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-14-10, 12:35 AM
Member
 
Endymion's Avatar
Endymion's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 55
Reputation: 1
Default

Stella Cadente raises good points, and ROT you can't discount what he says as biased because you're equally as predisposed for the other side.

Personally I'm leaning towards Stella's point of view. Honestly if Chaos got their act together they could do so much more, it's just they put an idiot in charge. You can't really claim they're failing because they're outnumbered when you have the remnants of the traitor legions, potentially the most experienced marines in the galaxy (not only that but they're high on chaos), plus hordes of the cultists and daemons. Add a massive laser that can destroy entire planets into the mix then Abaddon does have a pretty good chance. He doesn't even need to jump out of his massive planet killer space ship to destroy Cadia.

EDIT: Stella isn't contradicting himself, I think. First time he means black and white as in typed print. (I think)

Last edited by Endymion; 08-14-10 at 12:37 AM.
Endymion is offline  
post #33 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-14-10, 12:36 AM
Senior Member
 
Gree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 437
Reputation: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella Cadente View Post
and how many has he lost?,.
I don't know. How many has he lost? We certainly don't know anythign about his objectives much. The most information we have on the Black Crusades is the 12th and the 13th. The 12th suceeded in his overall strategic objectives and Chaos won the 13th in the campaign.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella Cadente View Post
he has a technological advantage alone, his ships would be older imperial vessels, moore powerful, faster and with greater weapons (and possibly blackstone fortresses if his did not deactivate)
Cool, but the Imperials have fortifed the entire sector.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella Cadente View Post
he has the most experienced warriors possible to call upon.
And the Imperium put's it's best warriors to guard the gate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella Cadente View Post
he has the power of 4 gods on his side
.............who are noted to be very fickle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella Cadente View Post
he has powerful allies like Typhus.
Who will eventually start infighting after a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella Cadente View Post
yet still the best he can do is bimble around like a moron and give the imperium plenty of time to react to his attacks time and time again,
I don't recall this. Abaddon got the drop on the Imperium in the Gothic Sector and completed his objectives and did the same in the 13th.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endymion View Post
Personally I'm leaning towads Stella's point of view. Honestly if Chaos got their act together they could do so much more, it's just they put an idiot in charge. You can't really claim they're failing because they're outnumbered when you have the remnants of the traitor legions, potentially the most experienced marines in the galaxy (not only that but they're high on chaos), plus hordes of the cultists and daemons. .
Where does it say that Chaos outnumbers the Imperium? Plus the entire Cadian sector is essentially fortified to stop any entry from the Cadian Gate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endymion View Post
He doesn't even need to jump out of his massive planet killer space ship to destroy Cadia.
Why would he want to destroy Cadia? He needs it as a jumping point for the Cadian Gate. The only stable route out of the Eye.

Last edited by Gree; 08-14-10 at 12:42 AM.
Gree is offline  
 
post #34 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-14-10, 12:36 AM
blahblahblahblah
 
Stella Cadente's Avatar
Stella Cadente's Flag is: Zaire
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: blahblahblahblah
Posts: 6,663
Reputation: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROT View Post
Got anything else to say?
now that we've gone into the horrendously silly madcap area of abby subconsciously leading tyranids...no I really REALLY don't as I see it would be an utter waste of time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROT View Post
Quite Contradictory, I'd like to see you explain this one.
thats easy.....ink+paper=black and white
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gree View Post
I don't know. How many has he lost? We certainly don't know anythign about his objectives much. The most information we have on the Black Crusades is the 12th and the 13th. The 12th suceeded in his overall strategic objectives and Chaos won the 13th in the campaign.
12 wasn't really a success, it was all aimed at blackstone fortresses, that was his goal, and for a while he was doing well getting 3, but was (surprise surprise) defeated, ending up running away with 2 which were then used by Typhus.

and 13....well less said about that one the better


Last edited by Stella Cadente; 08-14-10 at 12:40 AM.
Stella Cadente is offline  
post #35 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-14-10, 12:42 AM Thread Starter
ROT
Senior Member
 
ROT's Avatar
ROT's Flag is: Djibouti
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Essex, that shit hole you drive through to get to london.
Posts: 2,363
Reputation: 1
Default

Lol, I was hoping a mad-theory would throw you off. Damn. ;)

As for the 2nd part, Thats no explaination, because you know i've got you on that one.

Everything people say about Chaos having Potential makes sense.. But i just don't see why everyone thinks Abaddon is an idiot >.< Hes the Warmaster of Chaos, successor to Horus, Proberbly More powerful than Horus, He's clearly incharge for a reason.

I literally can't see for a second how he's a bad leader. If he was as crap as people think, why is he still in charge, The swarms of Chaos, AND the god's must still believe he can complete this, Else they would have just Murdered him.

The guy who wishes he never sold all his warhammer. Haha. Such is life.
ROT is offline  
post #36 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-14-10, 12:45 AM
blahblahblahblah
 
Stella Cadente's Avatar
Stella Cadente's Flag is: Zaire
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: blahblahblahblah
Posts: 6,663
Reputation: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROT View Post
As for the 2nd part, Thats no explaination, because you know i've got you on that one.
you really don't, there is a difference between something being black and white, or apples and oranges, and something being written in black and white, or pen and paper, the two have nothing in common in this situation and have nothing to do with anything together here.

Stella Cadente is offline  
post #37 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-14-10, 12:46 AM
Senior Member
 
Gree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 437
Reputation: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella Cadente View Post
12 wasn't really a success, it was all aimed at blackstone fortresses, that was his goal, and for a while he was doing well getting 3, but was (surprise surprise) defeated, ending up running away with 2 which were then used by Typhus.
And he got the Blackstones. Even if he did not get them all he got enough for the 13th. That was what the 12th was really all about. Once he got the Blackstones anything else was irevelant.

As for the rest of the Black Crusades. We don't know exactly what happened. We have a map at the back of the 3.5 Codex but we don't even know what Abbadon intended with each once.

Also the Black Crusades are not the same. The 3.5 Codex even says that they range from massive planetary invasions to small raids by elite companies of Black Legionaries.

Unless we get more information about the exact details of Abaddon's Crusades and what he planned, what his objectives where and what forces he faced I can't really say he is a failure.

Last edited by Gree; 08-14-10 at 12:49 AM.
Gree is offline  
post #38 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-14-10, 12:49 AM
Member
 
Endymion's Avatar
Endymion's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 55
Reputation: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gree View Post
Where does it say that Chaos outnumbers the Imperium? Plus the entire Cadian sector is essentially fortified to stop any entry from the Cadian Gate.



Why would he want to destroy Cadia? He needs it as a jumping point for the Cadian Gate. The only stable route out of the Eye.
I never said Chaos outnumbers the Imperium, sorry if it read that way.

And to my understanding Abaddon was the one that fired the planet killer at Cadia anyway? So... Either he wanted to destroy it or intended to "miss", or score a glancing hit... Either is possible I guess.
Endymion is offline  
post #39 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-14-10, 12:50 AM Thread Starter
ROT
Senior Member
 
ROT's Avatar
ROT's Flag is: Djibouti
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Essex, that shit hole you drive through to get to london.
Posts: 2,363
Reputation: 1
Default

Well, This has been fun, I'm off to sleep now though, i got nothing.

+rep for being a worthy Adversary
I'll head back if i think of anything more, but for now thread can return to it's Original Discussions. X]

./Admits defeat

The guy who wishes he never sold all his warhammer. Haha. Such is life.
ROT is offline  
post #40 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-14-10, 12:50 AM
Junior Member
 
LordRaith's Avatar
LordRaith's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 19
Reputation: 1
Default

Damn guys, getting a little heated in here. Here's my take on things:

Chaos don't seek true victory because it is in their nature to continue the fight with humanity for eternity. Khorne merely seeks the awful violence that comes with eternal battle. He doesn't care for anything but fighting. Likewise, Slaanesh finds perverse pleasure in battle. The endless struggles by mankind are orgasmic to him/her, thus, true victory lies in continued fighting. Tzeentch only cares about plotting, he doesn't plan to an end, just to plan. To throw a wrench in the plans of the Imperium for all time is his only goal. Nurgle's a little different in that he actually doesn't want to see the death of mankind. Nurgle loves life and wants to see it's continued existence so that he can keep bestowing his "gifts" upon it.

The Ruinous Powers aren't incapable, they just have a different idea of victory. They're called chaotic for a reason.

As for Abaddon, I'm pretty sure he's considered one of the worst threats the Imperium has ever seen. Don't quote me on this, but iirc, the timeline in the CSM codex seems to imply that Abby's latest crusade is in it's last leg before it reaches Terra, and that the Emperor is incapable of protecting the Imperium from chaos anymore.

LordRaith is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Warhammer 40K > 40k Fluff

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome