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post #1 of 70 (permalink) Old 07-23-10, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
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Default Emperor inconsistent?

I was wondering, does anyone else feel that the Emperor's skills/abilities fluctuate horribly in the fluff. I mean, in one instance he is shown to have the wisdom, foresight and knowledge of human nature to plan the creation of the Mechanicum THOUSANDS of years in advance but during the end of the Great Crusade/beginning of the Horus Heresy he's too dense to see how negatively his decisions are affecting those closest to him.
Then, while he's still relatively young (well, for the Emperor) we see him facing and beating the Void Dragon (supposedly the most powerful of all the C'Tan) but during the Great Crusade (when you'd think he'd be more skilled and powerful) he nearly gets his ass chocked out by an ork. Now, I'm always a bit biased when it comes to orks but even I gotta admit that unless the ork is so old and powerful that it's the size of a freaking gargant i can't see it standing a snowballs chance in hell in taking on a C'Tan.
Also, what was with the dumbass decision of creating the Thousand Sons during a bunch of major warp storms. I mean, its strongly implied that this was the cause of their unstable geneseed/fleshchange. What was he thinking "Hmmm... these storms nearly wiped out humanity, but hey, what's the worst that could happen?"
I don't know. Am I being a bit harsh? What do you guys think?
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post #2 of 70 (permalink) Old 07-23-10, 08:08 PM
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It's GWs fluff department.... they would forget what their own face looked like if it weren't for mirrors.
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post #3 of 70 (permalink) Old 07-23-10, 08:41 PM
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Back when I thought he was wiser and a more God-like character I actually thought he was being inconsistant for a reason. The emperor really daemonized or ignored a lot of the legions that turned to chaos while praising others. Fully half the legions turned which I guess one can say was just for Warhammer 40k fluff. But every loyal legion had an extreme version of itself in the traitor's legions. So thats also a very weird coincidence.

What the reason for the emperor in sort of planning something this redicolous, I think would be along the same lines the Alpha Legion turned chaos upon listening to the Cabal. It seemed that in the long terms of things it would have been more dangerous to have chaos hidden within the Imperium and take shape of something more deep and a lot more destructive than to create a shape or form of chaos strong enough which can actually be fought. But hey, thats the only reason I have with how the emperor let something like the Heresy get so out of hand. Totally something I made up so don't take it serious.

Horus really shouldn't have had the support he did. Peturabo and Angron were the two primarchs written about in the Heresy that really dispised his rising to Warmaster. But some how they hated the emperor even more. Peturabo we don't yet know fully about yet, but we have some clue as to why Angron did; which was basically because the Emperor let his bretheren die and felt the emperor took the one thing from his life. Peturabo we could say probably felt neglected as he watched his competition brother Dorn get all the glory as he did all the shitty work. Night Haunter was basically banished from the empyream and told to face the emperor for his deeds. Logar was daemonized for his fanatic praising of the Emperor and basically told that he sucked by the emperor. Magnus was forced to join chaos by the reaction he got from the emperor. Mortarrion had a similar reason along the lines of Angron I read somewhere. Though someone can elaborate a little more. Thats 7 primarchs out of 9 that if were treated the same as the other primarchs would have been loyal to the Emperor.
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post #4 of 70 (permalink) Old 07-23-10, 09:26 PM
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In all honesty, Magnus was forced to chaos by choices he made.
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post #5 of 70 (permalink) Old 07-23-10, 09:27 PM Thread Starter
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If it's GW's fluff department then I really think that they need to get their writers to collaborate more with their ideas. I mean they're all writing about the same freakin events and characters (Horus Heresy) so a little cohesion would make sense. As it is, it makes it really hard to get a solid picture of the Emperor when he's all great and powerful in one instance and then horribly incompetent in the next. Then again, maybe GW is deliberately trying to make you confused and make him seem more mysterious though I honestly can't see how the Emperor occasionally acting like a dumbass will make people more interested in him.
Then again, I have another possible (though probably very far fetched) theory about his abilities (the psychic ones at least). In A Thousand Sons, Ahriman mentions that a psyker's powers are affected by the current state of the warp. Maybe more powerful psykers are affected more harshly due to their stronger connection to the warp. Then the Emperor, being the most powerful psyker in existence, would suffer the greatest fluctuations in powers and abilities. Just a thought.
After reading ckcrawford's post I'm also actually thinking now and wondering why did the Emperor only teleport Angron up to his ship when, in all likelyhood, he could have teleported the rest of the gladiators with him (teleportation of multiple individuals wasn't that uncommon and the Emperor also has that big ass Golden City ship that should have been superior in tech to any other human vessels). Angron would probably have been a lot happier with him. It just seems to me like the Emperor was being a bit of an asshole.
Also, would Magnus have resorted to bargaining with chaos if his legion wasn't on the brink of extinction? Maybe or maybe not? Unfortunately we don't really know the answer.

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post #6 of 70 (permalink) Old 07-23-10, 10:03 PM
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He only needed Angron. If he has the lion in him he wouldn't consider taking all of them because they wouldn’t be useful.
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post #7 of 70 (permalink) Old 07-23-10, 10:54 PM
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Well in all fairness, you could say that about virtually all other primarchs. All you need is their primarchs. You don't need to all the others as they can all be replaced by others worthy of the geneseed. I think like all human beings, in order for one to be sane one must feel connected to the world. Not only did those things put into his head not help but killing the one brotherhood that raised him up and made him who he was, was whipped off the face of the earth. In my opinion, it might have been alot easier to take them all up into his ship instead of selecting only Angron in the huge crowd. Its almost as though the Emperor purposely went out of his way to select Angron through a cloud of gladiators. Would the Lion have been the same had the Emperor pulled him from the planet and destroyed his brotherly knighthood? Would Guilleman have been so great had he been removed from a rich and very successful system with all the man power he needed? Would have Leman Russ been so loyal if had been taken by the emperor and had his people die from the harshness of Fenris? Would proud Vulkan have been so humble had the emperor rejected the contest, taken Vulkan from his planet, and let his people die from the Volcanic storms? Virtually any other primarch had a close bond to their homes and people. And as some of the stories suggest, the Emperor had to sometimes play along with some of the primarchs to gain their respect. Of course I am mainly talking about his contests with Leman Russ and Vulkan.

I care very little for Magnus, but out of all fairness the Emperor was very inconsistant on what he taught Magnus. He taught Magnus things we would never let him use. Thats something a scientist or psychologist would do predict the outcome of someone's behavior.
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post #8 of 70 (permalink) Old 07-23-10, 10:56 PM
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I think the Consistancy your looking for can never happen. A book series like Tolkens Lord of the Rings, Stephen Kings Black Tower, or Robert Jordans Wheel of Time, have a single writer who knows what he wants and where hes generaly going with a story.

BL has different writers for different books/series about the same universe. BL more like a Comic company. Marvel Comics is base in the Marvel Universe, but it hardly flows together in harmony, you can have uber powerful characters being beaten by lower lvl beings. Sometimes characters are just out of character thanks to different writers and the dreaded RETCONs thats done in any large unfolding fluff work.

So its just expected with so many writers dabbling in the fluff to make it their own and RETCON (shiver, poor Ghost Rider) to keep it suppose fresh/new. Suks but thats how it is. As the Reader you have the power to decide that.... A) The Emperor held back when he was getting own, and looking dumb. B) Most of the godly awsome stuff the Emperor did was exagerated BS. I perfer the latter.
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post #9 of 70 (permalink) Old 07-23-10, 11:05 PM
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There were probably to many for them to take.
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post #10 of 70 (permalink) Old 07-23-10, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlock in Training View Post
I think the Consistancy your looking for can never happen. A book series like Tolkens Lord of the Rings, Stephen Kings Black Tower, or Robert Jordans Wheel of Time, have a single writer who knows what he wants and where hes generaly going with a story.

BL has different writers for different books/series about the same universe. BL more like a Comic company. Marvel Comics is base in the Marvel Universe, but it hardly flows together in harmony, you can have uber powerful characters being beaten by lower lvl beings. Sometimes characters are just out of character thanks to different writers and the dreaded RETCONs thats done in any large unfolding fluff work.

So its just expected with so many writers dabbling in the fluff to make it their own and RETCON (shiver, poor Ghost Rider) to keep it suppose fresh/new. Suks but thats how it is. As the Reader you have the power to decide that.... A) The Emperor held back when he was getting own, and looking dumb. B) Most of the godly awsome stuff the Emperor did was exagerated BS. I perfer the latter.
as a long time wheel of time reader i can safely say that what we percieve as readers as inconsistency usually turns out to be part of the very fabric of the story(SPOILER ALERT FOR WHEEL OF TIME: an aes sedai told a lie in book 2, something we are told cannot happen unless theyre evil, but for 10 books she goes on to be the most consistently good character in the series, but ends up having been working for the bad guys all along for good reasons). i think the big E's shortsightedness about the heresy was probably due to having his forsight clouded by the chaos gods, after all, they wouldnt want that info to reach him prematurely. so my answer to the emperor being inconsistent is Tzeentch.

you have been deemed guilty of blasphemy against the holy emperor, for this crime your punishment shall be thus...

1. Clean out the stall of the mighty god-emperor
2. feed the god-emperor 1000 fresh bales of hay everyday.
3. flagelate yourself for 16 hours a day
in the grim darkness of the far future there is only Bela!
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