Codex updates?? - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
40k Fluff Discuss GW background material here. All those bits in the Codex that aren't stat blocks or special rules. Post your custom character/chapter/army background in our Homebrew Fluff subforum!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-30-10, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Lord Reevan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Killarney, Kerry,Ireland
Posts: 4,252
Reputation: 1
Default Codex updates??

Well I know that the codex is basically the rules and regulations of the adeptus astartes and is revered as a holy artifact by some chapters but what I'd like to know is do they rewrite parts of it to update it when a new threat comes along? Like it has tactics and other material in it to help facing eldar and Orks and Chaos but what about the things that weren't around when it was written like tau and the like??

If you shit in one hand and wish in the other we all know which one will fill up faster.

And as I walk in the valley of the shadow of death I will have no fear For I am the scariest mother f*cker in that goddamned valley!

Damn nature, You Scary!!!
Lord Reevan is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-30-10, 05:23 PM
Senior Member
bobss's Flag is: England
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lincoln, England
Posts: 2,628
Reputation: 8
Default

Really, the Codex Astartes by various Space Marine Chapters -- the Ultramarines as the more common example -- believe that this tome is perfection, the incarnation of ultimate strategic genius, and so it is still rational to believe that it is held in such high esteem that they believe it cannot be possibly bettered, and any alteration will only cause negativity. However, many Astartes, even those within Chapters that zealously adhere, only regard the work of Roboute Guilliman as guidline, the basis upon which tactics may be based and changed to suit the need of the threat, or other unorthodox factors of a situation.

Also, this is the greatest and most wide-spanning legacy of Robute Guilliman, arguably most loyal of the Emperor`s Sons. Who would possibly dissect, detract and add to the epitomy of his infamous tactical cunning?

If changes were to be made, who would they be penned by? Marneus Calgar? He is but an Astartes, albeit Chapter Master; not a Primarch, least of all the tactical genius of Guilliman.

Last edited by bobss; 06-30-10 at 05:25 PM.
bobss is offline  
post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-30-10, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Lord Reevan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Killarney, Kerry,Ireland
Posts: 4,252
Reputation: 1
Default

that's the main reason I'm asking. if it is guidelines when A new thing comes along you need guidleines for it and if they have to be written who does it? unlikely I know but still. Like to ask questions all the same

If you shit in one hand and wish in the other we all know which one will fill up faster.

And as I walk in the valley of the shadow of death I will have no fear For I am the scariest mother f*cker in that goddamned valley!

Damn nature, You Scary!!!
Lord Reevan is offline  
 
post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-30-10, 05:29 PM
Tzeentch laughs at likely
 
Dave T Hobbit's Avatar
Dave T Hobbit's Flag is: Europe
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Inside my Head, Bristol, UK
Posts: 8,558
Reputation: 44
Default

I am imagining a Space Marine forum where they debate the meaning of various lines in the Codex Astartes, and challenge each other to duels about the correct way to resolve a conflict between a regulation that applies to all Marines and a regulation on the use of Bikes.

They log on during their mandatory 15 minutes of personal time.
Dave T Hobbit is offline  
post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-30-10, 05:30 PM
Senior Member
 
Baron Spikey's Avatar
Baron Spikey's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cheshire/Staffordshire
Posts: 5,934
Reputation: 5
Default

No- the Codex is what it is, the sum of the military minds from the Great Crusade and Scouring (it even includes treatises from the Traitor Primarchs, such as Perturabo's views on siege craft). Despite what many people think Guilliman may have compiled it and added his own view points on military strategy and organisation but he was wise enough to realise his own beliefs weren't the sum of effective combat.

Chapters can adhere strictly to the Codex (like the Ultramarines and Imperial Fists) using the knowledge contained within to combat new threats, the Codex undoubtedly contains the wisdom to defeat foes that attacked in a similar manner to the Tau and Tyranids for example.

Or Chapters might formulate their own tactics but consider the Codex a valuable guide, in those circumstances they aren't altering the Codex but using their own experience as well as it.
Baron Spikey is offline  
post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-01-10, 07:05 PM
Senior Member
 
Unknown Primarch's Avatar
Unknown Primarch's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Emperor's Throne Room
Posts: 745
Reputation: 1
Default

how sweet, ive just find the perfect thread for my rant.

funnily enough ive just read 'the consequences' by graham mcneil and it has just caused a mass escalation of hatred for guilleman that never really past through my mind until now.
obviously for longer fans of 40k there has been this hatred of all thing ultramarines because they always seem to be the poster boy of 40k but it never really bothered me as the paint scheme for them actually made me like them and reading the ventris novels created a view that they arent all starce arsed goody goody's.

but the bit that swung me was the interrogation of ventris about having to deviate from the codex to win a war with the tyranid, a enemy that guilleman had never seen or fought. now if the codex is so great then why isnt there a passage to suggest if a new threat is encounted and cant be defeated by using standard codex doctrine then using your own methods to win the day is quite acceptable.

it makes sense when mankind hadnt explored all of the galaxy and seeing as humans know of other galaxies like 30000 years before the codex is made then surely any competant person would understand a possible visit by extra galactic beings and they could be anything and do anything plus with widespread excounters with daemons who can do alot of unbelieveable stuff too then being able to adapt to anything anyway possible would be a good idea to put in the codex.

on a similar note, can anyone tell me how the hell guilleman was able to take control of all imperial forces after the heresy. before the heresy he wasnt considered the be the leader and when it broke out dorn was given the role of leader of all imperial forces and seeing as he wasnt killed in the heresy then that should still be in effect.
now before anyone says dorn went crazy and wasnt in the right mind, the emperor perosnally said dorn was in charge and seeing as the emperors word is gospel then how the hell can guilleman take it up on himself the change that but when people dont wanna follow what he says its heresy and cant be disagreed with.

plus if i ever see fulgrim ima bitch slap his ass back the the warp for stabbing guilleman with that sword as now guilleman is out of it who else can sort out any rectifications of the codex that will be needed for the 41st millenium.
Unknown Primarch is offline  
post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-01-10, 07:31 PM
Senior Member
 
Baron Spikey's Avatar
Baron Spikey's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cheshire/Staffordshire
Posts: 5,934
Reputation: 5
Default

Dorn was leader of the loyalist forces for about 7 years, then during the Scouring he went a bit crazy (to say the least) and deserted the Imperium, for all intents and purposes, on his mad quest for vengeance that lasted about a century- that's how long the Scouring took.

Whilst his brother Guilliman, renowned as one of the greatest generals and organisers of the Primarch, stayed to defend humanity in it's hour of need- I bet more people supported Guilliman's Codex than disagreed with him by a large percentage. Hmm who to support?
The man who was nominally in charge and who abandoned his duty OR the man who stood between us and extinction for a century...what a choice.

Who's to say that if Guilliman hadn't been with the Emperor during the Heresy he wouldn't have been placed in charge of the Imperium's armed forces during the Heresy, he was far more suited to the role than Dorn.
Baron Spikey is offline  
post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-01-10, 09:32 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,094
Reputation: 1
Default

But the Codex must update. Guilliman, whatever people think of him, was no fool. The treatises written by his traitor brothers on their specialist topics were never to be bettered, so he left them in, showing that he is, primarily, about practical knowledge. He distlilled all Astartes warfare into a seminal book, much like the Tactica Imperialis. And it's not just a 'do this and win'-type thing, but also there is a lot of Sun-Tzu type stuff.

What would Guilliman do if he had lived through the time between the HH and 40k? Without doubt he would have added to the Codex, reflecting the changes in enemies and the evolving role of the Astartes. So, what I think, is that the Codex now varies between Chapters. By this I mean that Chapters that worship the book, like the UMs, might never change it from the original version, hamstringing themselves with their reverance. Other Chapters are probably more pragmatic about it, adding in new essays and tactics as they are needed and appropriate.

I think this reverence for the Codex is a wrinkle of depth that people miss when it comes to the UMs. They are disliked because they follow this book and think they are better because of it. But isn't there an element of tradgedy about this? If they don't update the Codex, then, slowly but surely, it becomes more and more outdated as will they. They will be forced to try to gain tactical advice from discussions of past situations that have nothing in common with what is actually in front of them. How do they grow from this? Do they ignore it and become more and more irrelevant, inflexible and hidebound as time goes on, or do they, as a Chapter, abandon their beliefs in the infallibility of Guilliman's master-work? What would that do to them, removing a central pillar of their psyche? Would there be a schism, a civil war between those who think they have to change and those who think they just need to get better at reading between the lines? And what would happen to their Successor Chapters? Would there be a split in them, reflecting the issues within the UMs themselves?

There is a lot of depth with the Ultras, if we just think about them the same way we do about all of the other Chapters. Here is a group of heroes, just like all other Chapters, but one that is racing towards a crisis of faith in its own identity. They are only 1D if we think of them like that.

GFP
Giant Fossil Penguin is offline  
post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-01-10, 09:44 PM
Senior Member
 
Baron Spikey's Avatar
Baron Spikey's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cheshire/Staffordshire
Posts: 5,934
Reputation: 5
Default

I only just remembered- the Ultramarines have updated the Codex (or at the version they adhere to) in the form of a dedicated core of Tyranid Hunters, there was a huge debate between all the brethren of the Chapter that could return to Macragge in time to take part with the debate going in favour of the addition due to the fervent arguments of Chaplain Cassius and a Veteran Sergeant from the Scythes of the Emperor.

So it has happened.
Baron Spikey is offline  
post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-02-10, 03:08 PM
Senior Member
 
Stephen_Newman's Avatar
Stephen_Newman's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Solihull (UK West Midlands)
Posts: 3,864
Reputation: 5
Default

Yeah they must update or change it since Calgar himself stated after early losses against the tyranids of behemoth that the Ultramarines were "guilty of the sin of pride" and that the codex was not effective since "the blessed primarch did not know of their existence when he penned his tome". So as new threats emerge then the person with the most experiance against the threat might add a new chapter with tactics most effective against the said threat.


I have recently started a new Blog. I would really appreciate it if you would LOOK AT IT
Stephen_Newman is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Warhammer 40K > 40k Fluff

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome