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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-20-10, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
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Default Why do Astartes have Librarians?

After reading Thousand Sons and seeing the Emperor's Edict of Nikea, I was wondering how Astartes chapters can now justify having Librarians? He banned all use of psychic powers and said that those who defy his judgement would become his enemy.

I know that the Black Templars abhor the use of psykers because of their hardline stance, but all other chapters have some form of psyker.

I found it ironic as well that Othere Wyrdmake was one of the oponents of using psychic powers even though he was a practitioner.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-20-10, 10:58 AM
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We can only assume that an order is given at some later point, that rescinds the Nikaean desicion.
Maybe the Emperor saw how useful Librarians would be in the fight against Chaos or maybe Guilliman, in the aftermath of the Heresy whe he took the title of Lord Commander of all of the Imperium's armed forces, changed it. At this point, no-one would question the orders of one of the Primarchs, especially one who was trying to hold things together; maybe the High Lords told everyone that the order had actually come from the Emperor and, when Guilliman stood down, no-one thought they had the authority to re-apply the ban.
At this stage, it's all to play for.

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-20-10, 02:23 PM
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Guilliman did it. The biggest heretic of them all. He Split the Legions the Big E set up. He threaten to brand his fellow loyaltist Primarchs as heretics if they didnt accept the Codex Astartes that HE made. He rein stated the Librarium after his father decreed not to. Then for shits and giggles he went to the Golden Throne, pulled his pants down, and took a huge Shit in the Big Es mouth while saying, "Whos your Warmaster now daddy?"
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-20-10, 07:35 PM
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Or it could have been the Emperor himself when he authorised the founding of the Inquisition and Grey Knights- he allowed their pschic powers to be used once more, it's not exactly a leap of imagination to suggest that he relaxed his decision from the Council of Nikea.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-20-10, 08:53 PM
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Perfectly plausible, Baron. There are a lot of ways that Nikaea could have been overturned. It will be interesting to see if they ever tell us why it happened, or if they leave it a secret.

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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-20-10, 09:24 PM
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"To solve this dispute, the Emperor called for a debate on the use of psychic powers. They gathered on Nikaea and the Emperor presided over the debate. The results meant that sorcery was illegal, but psykers were to be trained for the benefit of the Imperium. Magnus was not happy, but was forced to comply, which he did. It would be the last time Magnus and the Emperor would meet however."

This was on Lexicanum on the page about Magnus the Red.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-20-10, 10:57 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Abbott View Post
"To solve this dispute, the Emperor called for a debate on the use of psychic powers. They gathered on Nikaea and the Emperor presided over the debate. The results meant that sorcery was illegal, but psykers were to be trained for the benefit of the Imperium. Magnus was not happy, but was forced to comply, which he did. It would be the last time Magnus and the Emperor would meet however."

This was on Lexicanum on the page about Magnus the Red.
Doesn't this refer to the Astro Telepathica though? In Thousand Sons the Emperor expressly says that no Legion shall keep Librarians. Obviously though, some continued in secret, as the Thousand Sons did until Magnus contacted the Emperor.

Off topic a bit, but I like how they hint that Magnus' contact used tainted lore, as the runes painted on the floor "left a bad taste" in Ahriman's mouth.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-21-10, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbott View Post
"To solve this dispute, the Emperor called for a debate on the use of psychic powers. They gathered on Nikaea and the Emperor presided over the debate. The results meant that sorcery was illegal, but psykers were to be trained for the benefit of the Imperium. Magnus was not happy, but was forced to comply, which he did. It would be the last time Magnus and the Emperor would meet however."

This was on Lexicanum on the page about Magnus the Red.
Yet another example of why Lexicanum shoudn't be trusted

A Thousand Sons (and the Collected Visions) tells us that psychic powers in general were banned at the council of Nikaea, not just sorcery.

And Nikaea also was not the last time that the Emperor and Magnus met.



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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-21-10, 01:18 AM
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It could have possibly been Malcador the Sigillite that kind of did a "Librarian decision" behind closed doors before he died? He was a pyscher too, and at least during A Thousand Son, it seemed that the Emperor was pretty set in his descision to eliminate the Librarian teachings from the legions.

It could be that Malcador found the necessity of having pyschers before he took seat on the golden thrown knowing that he was going to die.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-22-10, 09:38 PM
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I thought that the Libarians were reinstated after the battle of terra out of sheer necessaty

either the Emperor, Guiliman or the high lords saw that they needed to use every tool to combat the now revealed dark powers and to protect the astartes. If they can train them to harness their powers they can help shield them from corruption, kind of like the Grey knights, all are psykers but (mainly) use their powers as a form of protection, rather than the more offensive nature of the battle psyker practiced by Magnus and the thousand sons

The problem with nikea edict about librarians returning to normal battle brothers was kind of impossible, effectivly telling them not to use or experience an integral part of who they were whereas as astartes they are trained to use every attribute they have to win glory for the emperor

I always thought that the whole Nikea incedent was a bit of a cop out for the emperor where he bowed to political pressure to appease others, after the HH there was far less pressure as the imperial church and the idea divine emperor who guided all (in a way using psycic powers) relaxed the rabid anti psyker fear somewhat. Psykers may be viewed as having a closer connection to the emperor

wyrddrake never actually viewed himself as having psykic powers in the same way as the thousand sons used, he thought he was blessed by the wild cycles of fenris not the warp touched battle magics the sons used, look at his reaction to the battle on Aghrou (sp) when the sons go crazy at the titans when they think magnus is killed
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