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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-02-10, 11:44 PM Thread Starter
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also I want to know where everyone gets all these cool pictures of 40K
Horus Heresy Artbooks my friend.
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-02-10, 11:47 PM
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I've always been of the mind GW is getting enough of my money, hence why in the long history of dealing with them I haven't purchased one thing that wasn't either a model or a rulebook...money hungry bassards
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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-03-10, 12:14 AM
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So since he was a part of the gaming experience (which mortals had a chance of taking him down) and he was banished by mortals (GK's aren't gods) I think the possibility of being bested by Sanguinis (post Ascension) is pretty balanced. Lets not see the Primarchs as simple marines who are a bit stronger, they were endowed with a small bit of Empreror's soul.
So are you forgetting that Angron is also a Primarch. But also much more, a Primarch-made-Daemon, for all intents and purposes more powerful than a 'normal' primarch.

And as far as Angron's banishment during the First War for Armageddon is concerned, the Grey Knights are literally 'all that', they are the anti-Daemon force in the galaxy. Heavily implied to be created from the Emperor's own DNA, and equipped and blessed with the most potent weaponary available to man. They are all psykers, and have all undergone testing that would render 'normal' Astartes dead or simply insane, they are the pinnacle of the Imperium's military might and greatest weapon of the Emperor. They would be much more effective against Daemons, and indeed a Daemon Primarch than any other loyalist Primarch in all honesty. However the Grey Knights are an incredibly tiny force in comparison to the size of the galaxy and frequent occurence of Chaos insurrections across Imperial Space. They are incredibly valuable and valued, and simply cannot be everywhere at once. To my knowledge an entire company was fielded on Armageddon, this may well have been unprecedented numbers of Grey Knights fielded in a single operation, and less than a handful made it back.

Leading on from that let us not forget that basically the entire company of these invaluable warriors were lost to Angron's hand.

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also I want to know where everyone gets all these cool pictures of 40K
As Coder59 said, from the Collected Visions. But you could always use google images, a lot are posted on the internet and google, being a search engine tends to pick them up...



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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-03-10, 12:16 AM
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So you've never bought any BL books?

Both those images are from the Horus Heresy: Collected Visions book, pricey at 30 but very beautiful.
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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-03-10, 03:14 AM
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Grabbing the fast flying primarch with the great big sword doesn't seem like the wisest choice to me.
Like a Daemon Primarch wouldn't be fast enough to dodge or would care if he actually got hit, not like he can get killed.

Also this is Angron we're talking about, someone who upon crash landing on a planet wiped out a party of Eldar assassins the moment he got out of his capsule.
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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-03-10, 05:53 AM
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We assume that Daemonic = More powerful, but does it? Might Daemonic just = Differently powerful? Now, I'm not saying this is the case mind, but just throwing it out there.
What would daemonancy do for a Primarch? Do we have real written examples of them becoming vastly more powerful immediately, or does it take time? Will their new form give them the ability to engage fully with the warp, or just with the things that meshed with their attitudes beforehand? EG, As a Daemon of Khorne, will Angron just be able to power himself with the immortal anger of Khorne himself, or could he make the ground turn to water and turn bystanders into spawn as well? We do know that they are never truly killed, just banished to the warp for a pre-determined length of time, so there is that.
In the end, is a daemon Primarch better in every way, or would Angron just be more, well, Angron-y? In there, somewhere, I feel might lie some way of making a choice that isn't just based on what character you happen to like most.
For me, getting off my tangent and striding manfully back OT, I think it would be close, but a clear head might prevail over boiling fury and mindlessness. So Sanguinius for me.

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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-03-10, 07:01 AM
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We assume that Daemonic = More powerful, but does it? Might Daemonic just = Differently powerful? Now, I'm not saying this is the case mind, but just throwing it out there.
What would daemonancy do for a Primarch? Do we have real written examples of them becoming vastly more powerful immediately, or does it take time? Will their new form give them the ability to engage fully with the warp, or just with the things that meshed with their attitudes beforehand?

Horus kicked the emperor's ass, the most powerful psycher in the universe and the strongest 'human' ever.

The emp only won because sanguinius pierced horus's armor and some say horus went easy on the emperor.
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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-03-10, 10:28 AM
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Yes, but the only fluff I've ever seen on that topic says that the Emperor was so badly wounded becuase he couldn't bring himself to believe his favourite son had fallen so far. When it was revealed to him, he struck back with all of his might and killed Horus. But that is a discussion for a different thread.

On the part of it that is OT, Horus was powered by the 4 Dark Gods themselves, a physical vessel through which they could exercise their power in the materium. That is not a daemon, that is something very different, or at least it is something far above even a Daemon Primarch. Being given a portion of the power of a god is different than becoming part of the warp with all of the good and bad that brings.

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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-03-10, 10:56 AM
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Yes, but the only fluff I've ever seen on that topic says that the Emperor was so badly wounded becuase he couldn't bring himself to believe his favourite son had fallen so far. When it was revealed to him, he struck back with all of his might and killed Horus. But that is a discussion for a different thread.

On the part of it that is OT, Horus was powered by the 4 Dark Gods themselves, a physical vessel through which they could exercise their power in the materium. That is not a daemon, that is something very different, or at least it is something far above even a Daemon Primarch. Being given a portion of the power of a god is different than becoming part of the warp with all of the good and bad that brings.

GFP
True he got buffed four times.

But then again the emperor's insanely strong, he could easily take out a daemon primarch without breaking a sweat, hence why horus got buffed four times over.

And also the emperor isn't a normal human, then again I never thought he was and apparently what I've been thinking has evolved into a theory that he isn't human but rather an old one.
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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-03-10, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
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Horus kicked the emperor's ass, the most powerful psycher in the universe and the strongest 'human' ever.

The emp only won because sanguinius pierced horus's armor and some say horus went easy on the emperor.
Er wrong. Sorry but you're dead wrong there. This is why the Chaos Gods used Horus. Not because there was something they could do to him that they could do to nobody else. But because in the final confrontation The Big E wouldn't want to strike down Horus. Yes Horus was tough but he was also the favoured and most beloved son, by using him and not mutating him beyond all recognition like say Angron or Mortarion all the Emperor could see was his boy and he still harboured that very human emotion that Horus could be brought back and subcontiously limited himself.

When the Big E DID use his full power he killed Horus in one shot.

Anyway back on topic. Like has allready been said I think Sanguinius having a clearer head and more experience fighting on the wing is going to tip the battle. People seem to assume that Daemon= miles better. But I disagree I've had moments on the tabletop were Daemon Princes have been ripped a new one by Space Marine Captains who's to say the same sort of thing couldn't happen with the Primarchs?

We also have to ask ourselves where does Daemon Angron stand when compared to Kyriss the Perverse and Ka'Bhanda (spelling?) Who were both unique greater Daemons. Ka'Bhanda is also described as the greatest of the Blood Thirsters of Khorne and we all know what Sanguinius did to him, sure he got beat up but he still won! Remember Sanguinius is named the Bane of Daemons If I was a Daemon Primarch I would stay the futch away from him....and Rogal Dorn.
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