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post #21 of 121 (permalink) Old 09-17-09, 01:54 AM
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Plus hoped up on his juice he went toe to toe with the Emp.
everyone knows the emperor was going easy on him, like a father would with his wayward son

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Also, being a tactical and strategic genius means little in a one on one duel.
yes, close quarters combat intelligence/skill and tactical/strategic genius are two separate things
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post #22 of 121 (permalink) Old 09-17-09, 11:27 AM Thread Starter
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I'm really really sorry about this. Seriously I am but it just has to be done.


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everyone knows the emperor was going easy on him, like a father would with his wayward son
Carry on my wayward son
There'll be peace when you are done
lay your weary head to rest
don't you cry no more
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post #23 of 121 (permalink) Old 09-17-09, 12:24 PM
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I think it has to be Sanguinius. He broke a daemons back across his knee with only his bare hands. And it wasn't Horus's combat abilities that killed Sanguinius it was his pshycic abilities and the fact that he shattered his mind, Horus did weaken Sanguinius in the actual fight but that wasnt what killed him.

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post #24 of 121 (permalink) Old 09-17-09, 01:04 PM
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I cant remember where i read this (long time ago) but Horus would train the other primarchs when they were found. At the end of their "training" Horus would 1v1 them in a duel and the only ones to have ever beaten him were Sanguinius and Russ. if you ask me that kinda automatically makes it between Russ and the Angel.

Fulgrim i find to be a definite no since he couldnt even beat Ferrus without cheating. Ferrus wasnt known for being an awesome fighter either (relative to other primarchs).

And from what i understood about Magnus, he was the worst hth fighter of all the primarchs but his psychic abilities more than made up for it.

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post #25 of 121 (permalink) Old 09-17-09, 01:05 PM
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5th Ed Space Marine codex states it was Guilliman due to his tactical genius and diplomatic skills.
Fair enough So thats 2 conflicting sources so far!

I make a habit of purposely not buying Space Marine Codices! Even though I own most other Codices, so thats why I wasn't aware of this particular source

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And it wasn't Horus's combat abilities that killed Sanguinius it was his pshycic abilities and the fact that he shattered his mind, Horus did weaken Sanguinius in the actual fight but that wasnt what killed him.
I was under the impression we didn't actually know how Horus killed Sanguinius. Only that when the Emperor turned up, Sanguinius' body lay mauled at the Warmasters feet.

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everyone knows the emperor was going easy on him, like a father would with his wayward son
If you havn't done so already. Try reading the account of the Emperor's duel with Horus in the Collected Visions. Its not as straight forward as you might think.

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Fulgrim i find to be a definite no since he couldnt even beat Ferrus without cheating. Ferrus wasnt known for being an awesome fighter either (relative to other primarchs).

And from what i understood about Magnus, he was the worst hth fighter of all the primarchs but his psychic abilities more than made up for it.
I havnt read 'Fulgrim' since it was released so may be wrong here. But he didnt cheat when fighting Ferrus Manus at all. It was only after he had beaten Ferrus in a duel that he found he couldnt bring himself to deliver the killing blow.. then he allowed the Daemon to take over. Thats not cheating.. he beat Ferrus without the Daemons Help (If memory serves!! )

And no Magnus was not the worst fighter of the Primarchs. He was the largest Primarch and was extremley strong. He would have killed Russ were it not for the actions of Wolf Lord Garm. So if you want to get technical Magnus is actually a 'better fighter' than Russ, because Russ had to 'cheat' to beat Magnus!!



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post #26 of 121 (permalink) Old 09-17-09, 02:58 PM Thread Starter
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I make a habit of purposely not buying Space Marine Codices! Even though I own most other Codices, so thats why I wasn't aware of this particular source
Gosh darned heretics

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I was under the impression we didn't actually know how Horus killed Sanguinius. Only that when the Emperor turned up, Sanguinius' body lay mauled at the Warmasters feet.
I think he's supposed to have stunned him with dragonball z psychic hadouken thingy and then strangled him. I don't believe this however since horus was wearing Lightening claws...hoow do you strangle somebody with heresy era lightening claws?

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If you havn't done so already. Try reading the account of the Emperor's duel with Horus in the Collected Visions. Its not as straight forward as you might think.
Yeh but it still comes down to Big E not being able to bring his full power to bear on the big cry baby.



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I havnt read 'Fulgrim' since it was released so may be wrong here. But he didnt cheat when fighting Ferrus Manus at all. It was only after he had beaten Ferrus in a duel that he found he couldnt bring himself to deliver the killing blow.. then he allowed the Daemon to take over. Thats not cheating.. he beat Ferrus without the Daemons Help (If memory serves!! )
Thou most certainly are wrong sir. When Fulgrim and Ferrus first started their little duel Ferrus was using Fireblade the sword he made and then gifted to Fulgrim and Mr Girlypants was using Forgebreaker, and as a result Ferrus was kicking him all over the place. However Fulgrim was carrying the Daemon Sword he got in the temple of the Laer and it was only when he started to use that and the power it was feeding him that he managed to kill Ferrus.

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And no Magnus was not the worst fighter of the Primarchs. He was the largest Primarch and was extremley strong. He would have killed Russ were it not for the actions of Wolf Lord Garm. So if you want to get technical Magnus is actually a 'better fighter' than Russ, because Russ had to 'cheat' to beat Magnus!!
Just because he was bigger and stronger that doesn't mean he was a better fighter. Russ is allways spoken of as one of the best warriors amongst the Primarchs and Magnus is never mentioned as such his power seems to have been mainly psychic. So if he was beating Russ it was probably due to either Daemon Juice or Psychic powers. In fact i'm sure i read somewhere that Magnus was no match for Russ as a warrior and he knew it, so he used foul acts of sorcery to close the gap and fight in a manner which Russ couldn't.
Besides Magnus is a Wizard (despite his lack of beard) can you really see him pounding away at Russ and yelling "MAGNUS SMASH!" no I think Russ will have been the one smacking Magnus and Magnus will have been using Psychic powers and physical attacks since Russ had no defence against them.

If Magnus had been fighting the winged wonder he would have been dead in two seconds flat.
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post #27 of 121 (permalink) Old 09-17-09, 03:56 PM
 
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I think Angron because his Legion loves CC.
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post #28 of 121 (permalink) Old 09-17-09, 04:31 PM
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just where does it say that Horus defeated winged wonder with a psychic attack? in all the accounts I've read all it ever says is something to the effect of Sanguinius tried to talk sense to Horus, but Horus would have none it. In his weakened state Sanguinius was no match for the Chaos-powered Horus and was quickly dispatched.
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post #29 of 121 (permalink) Old 09-17-09, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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just where does it say that Horus defeated winged wonder with a psychic attack? in all the accounts I've read all it ever says is something to the effect of Sanguinius tried to talk sense to Horus, but Horus would have none it. In his weakened state Sanguinius was no match for the Chaos-powered Horus and was quickly dispatched.
I think it was old fluff tbh. I think the strangleing thing is still in but I think the excuse for him losing was that we was weakened after the battle on Terra.
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post #30 of 121 (permalink) Old 09-17-09, 07:43 PM
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I think if I really had to choose I would choose Sanguinas because the only fight he didn't survive was against someone with power of near godlike proprotions (in the material realm any way, whole different thing in the warp).
Plus he had the second sight, he could see into the future ( I think, I'm sure I've read that somewhere).

But otherwise I would disagree as when Napoleon was told of the tactical skill of a subordinate he said "but is he lucky?"

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