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post #91 of 121 (permalink) Old 02-01-14, 10:05 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong but, as far as I know, the same can be said for Sanguinius quite frankly. Yet no one ever seems to question it when his name gets thrown out there.
You are correct. Going toe to toe with a greater demon does go in the plus column though.
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post #92 of 121 (permalink) Old 02-01-14, 10:36 PM
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You are correct. Going toe to toe with a greater demon does go in the plus column though.
Similarly, Lorgar bested An'ggrath the Unbound (within the Eye of Terror no less) but no one claims he was one of the most capable warriors amongst the Primarchs.

We accept that Sanguinius was one of the most capable fighters because we are told that he was (without really being shown). Why people can't also accept that Horus was amongst the best warriors is beyond me.



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post #93 of 121 (permalink) Old 02-01-14, 10:39 PM
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I also remember in Know No Fear, Guilliman stating that Horus was one of like 5 primarchs he would go to battle with (Horus, Sang, Leman, Dorn, Ferrus?).
I think you're referring to the 'Dauntless Few', which consisted of Ferrus, Dorn, Sanguinius and Russ. He stated that with any one of them and their respective Legions, he could beat any foe, and defend the Imperium from any theoretical.

As Lorgar said, you can always rely on Roboute to sound like a giant pompous arsehole.

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post #94 of 121 (permalink) Old 02-02-14, 04:21 AM
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You are correct. Going toe to toe with a greater demon does go in the plus column though.
Yes, he beat a greater daemon. But as you yourself pointed out, this is a fight between primarchs. And as things stand, even greater daemons have a piss poor record when it comes to fighting any of the Emperor's sons. In fact...

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Similarly, Lorgar bested An'ggrath the Unbound (within the Eye of Terror no less) but no one claims he was one of the most capable warriors amongst the Primarchs.
And this is also the same Lorgar who decades later, after having some time to develop his abilities more, still nearly got killed by Corax. Greater daemons (and other unspecified, yet powerful ones) have become primarch punching bags. Whenever the authors want to highlight how powerful the primarchs are they throw a greater and/or powerful daemon into the mix to get beat up. So victories over them have lost much of their impact and meaning.

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We accept that Sanguinius was one of the most capable fighters because we are told that he was (without really being shown). Why people can't also accept that Horus was amongst the best warriors is beyond me.
Agreed 100%

And then people also use the fight between Temba + Anathame and Horus as a reason to go "Horus sucks", or something along those lines. A fight he won while sustaining a single injury that would, from any other weapon, not have given a primarch even a moment of pause. A fight he arrived at already injured, after being tossed around the ship as it was busy collapsing. A fight where he faced a type of opponent and weapon he had never encountered before, and still managed to adapt and come out victorious. And a fight in which we have absolutely no basis to judge how any of the other primarchs would have fared. For all we know, any of Horus's brothers would have been outright killed during that encounter.

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post #95 of 121 (permalink) Old 02-02-14, 05:34 AM
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Please people........we all know that the clown down the street was the best close quarters fighter ever. I mean how many Primarchs did he sucker into laughing, then cut their heads off while they did so.


On a serious note I still think Leman Russ is the baddest of the bad. It is true that Sanguinius was a great warrior, Fulgrim a great dueler, Mortarian the master of strength, and Angron an angry beast of pure Fury but it matters not. The man has tanks named after him, a ship named after him, numerous fortressses and Hives named in his honor. He out ate and out drank the Emporer single-handedly! Beat Magnus, survived a fight with Angron (one of the few), and beat to daemonic princes into submission.

Serious this guys rap sheet is almost perfect except the sucker punch he recieved from El'Johnson.



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post #96 of 121 (permalink) Old 02-02-14, 07:02 AM
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On a serious note I still think Leman Russ is the baddest of the bad. It is true that Sanguinius was a great warrior, Fulgrim a great dueler, Mortarian the master of strength, and Angron an angry beast of pure Fury but it matters not. The man has tanks named after him, a ship named after him, numerous fortressses and Hives named in his honor. He out ate and out drank the Emporer single-handedly! Beat Magnus, survived a fight with Angron (one of the few), and beat to daemonic princes into submission.
I really don't mean to offend, but your argument baffles me. This is a thread debating who the best fighter is amongst the primarchs. You list a bunch of potentially relevant things about other primarchs, and then claim they don't matter. Then post a bunch of things totally irrelevant to fighting capability, such as eating, drinking and having shit named after you, and use that as part of your argument to back your statement. Also, he barely beat Magnus (I am of the opinion that a fight between them can go either way, depending on the circumstances), and lost to Angron. And which daemon princes are you referring to here? I personally don't recall Russ beating up on any daemon princes, but maybe it happened in a piece of fluff I have yet to encounter.

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post #97 of 121 (permalink) Old 02-02-14, 03:05 PM
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I think you're referring to the 'Dauntless Few', which consisted of Ferrus, Dorn, Sanguinius and Russ. He stated that with any one of them and their respective Legions, he could beat any foe, and defend the Imperium from any theoretical.

As Lorgar said, you can always rely on Roboute to sound like a giant pompous arsehole.

Yes, thank you. I didn't take it as arrogant though, just as his personal reflection of his trusted brothers. Plenty of other primarchs reflect in the same way...and to be honest, he was probably right.
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post #98 of 121 (permalink) Old 02-03-14, 02:32 PM
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In Deliverance Lost, Corax states that in sparring matches he was a match for Horus and further considered himself the better of both Curze and Lorgar, reasoning he lost to Curze on Istvaan by losing himself in battle and losing awareness of what was happening around himself by trying to go for the kill with Lorgar.

Most lists put Corax just outside the top few. This would either suggest Horus too would not be one of the top fighters, or that Corax is slightly under considered.

From the HH books it certainly looks like Sanguinius, Fulgrim and Angron are the top 3 pre-demonic ability but virtually every other Primarch could break through if conditions were right.

Last edited by GoRy; 02-03-14 at 02:34 PM.
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post #99 of 121 (permalink) Old 02-03-14, 05:04 PM
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From the HH books it certainly looks like Sanguinius, Fulgrim and Angron are the top 3 pre-demonic ability but virtually every other Primarch could break through if conditions were right.
After reading Scars I'd put the Khan up there in the top tier as well.
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post #100 of 121 (permalink) Old 02-03-14, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by GoRy View Post
In Deliverance Lost, Corax states that in sparring matches he was a match for Horus and further considered himself the better of both Curze and Lorgar, reasoning he lost to Curze on Istvaan by losing himself in battle and losing awareness of what was happening around himself by trying to go for the kill with Lorgar.
Firstly, Corax never lost to Curze. They never fought. The extent of their physical interaction was Curze blocking a blow Corax meant for Lorgar. That's it.

Also, Corax says at one point he and Horus were a match at sparring, but on Isstvan, during a life or death situation, he straight up admits that Horus stood a chance of beating Angron where he wouldn't. Which suggests that he still views Horus as his better in terms of fighting.

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From the HH books it certainly looks like Sanguinius, Fulgrim and Angron are the top 3 pre-demonic ability but virtually every other Primarch could break through if conditions were right.
And again we have Sanguinius listed, with no primarch combat feats to back the claims, but Horus gets shunted, when he has just as much acknowledgement as a skilled warrior throughout the series as the Angel has. I really don't get it.

Also, I really don't see what makes Fulgrim so special. He beat Ferrus, but one could argue that it was the Laeran blade who gave him that win.

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After reading Scars I'd put the Khan up there in the top tier as well.
Why?


The human appendix. Proof of a higher power. A divine kill switch so to speak.

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Last edited by Chompy Bits; 02-03-14 at 07:09 PM.
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