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post #1 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-22-09, 01:22 PM Thread Starter
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Chaos Grey Knights (something that makes sense)

I have wanted to make a chaos grey knight army 4 a while but it dosen't make any sense cince grey knights can't fall to chaos. So I thought what if they were dead Grey Knight who had been brought to life by a chaos sorcerer! their armour and bodies could be mauled (because they died of that on the batlefield) if people like that sort of thing, or someone might have planted a bomb where the air tanks were on a grey knight battle barge and let them off after the ship had left orbit. Then the weapons,armour,bodies would have been perfectly preserved if people want a normal grey knight force, just chaotic! it's just an idea but tell me what you think.

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post #2 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-22-09, 01:25 PM
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It would be good but i think using the GK codex and then use it as a basis of a uber elite chaos force with the same shite but with a chaos/daemonic twist..dead GK brough back to life seems a bit odd to me, even in the 40k 'verse

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post #3 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-22-09, 01:51 PM
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I don't think that there was ever and incident when Grey Knights died in huge numbers and their gene seed was not recovered.

And I don't think that you can just secretly sneak onto their battle barge and blow up the whole oxygen supply so they all suffocate. Further, I wonder if Chaos can bring back sapient zombies in large numbers. If not, you'd have a force of grey knight bodies with damages brains (due to the cut off oxygen supply), so without being a real killer anymore.

Thus, I'd second the World Eater's advice - use the Grey Knights codes as an Elite force, like Black Legion CSM who were once upon a time members of the First Company of the Luna Wolves, for example.
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post #4 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-22-09, 04:47 PM
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I wouldn't have a problem with it personally, as long as it was a Grey Knights legal list and the models were clear about what they represented... but I've been demoted from "Team Fluff" and had to go and play with the much less cool "Team Counts-As" (Coach, Galahad G. Galahad) recently, so you don't have to take any notice of anything I say.

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post #5 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-22-09, 05:35 PM
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I've always quite liked the idea of Chaotic GK, but I'm yet to come across a good reason for them fluff wise.
I suppose another reason could be they are a failed early experiment, thought destroyed but now they have resurfaced. A few thousand years of fighting in the Eye of Terror has made up for any deficiencies they may have had as 'not quite finished' Grey Knights, and although fluff wise they may be different stat wise they could be identical.

Chaos GK are always going to be difficult to pull off thanks to so many "I know that no Grey Knights have ever fallen to Chaos, these are the only ones." stories in GW and gaming clubs since the GK were invented.

Good luck with it though, I'll keep an eye on this one and see what people come up with.

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post #6 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-22-09, 07:58 PM
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When GK die arent the bodies taken back to Titan? if not, then i see no problem with that reasoning.

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post #7 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-22-09, 10:48 PM
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It does seem as if the reasoning is iffy, more an excuse to have grey knights that are servants of chaos because you want grey knights, than a real, "it could happen in the 40k universe" reason.

Instead of trying to make a grey knight that serves chaos, how about making a servant of chaos that is equivalent, like Red Orc said. Instead of a nemisis force halberd, a minor daemon weapon, instead of psycannons, warp infused heavy bolter/autocannon/stubber type weapon, there is no reason that you can't take the rules, apply the "counts as" principle, and then create a good, fluffy unit. Just avoid any reasoning that requires a '"what if," that tends towards rationalizing bending/breaking fluff and or rules for who can ally with who.

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post #8 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-22-09, 11:22 PM
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Yes. Exactly what Son of Mortarian said. That's what I should have said, if I was being helpful instead of a doofus.

As pretty much everyone has suggested so far, in fact, the best way to go seems to be an elite daemon-infested force that has the same stats as GK, but a different justification.

It does get very very complex if you want allies though. Chaos marine allies have to be loyalist marines that 'count as chaos'... but you can take inducted 'traitor' guard, I guess... and crucially, your models must be clear if you're using the 'counts as' principle.

For instance, I use the Blood Angel Codex for my Chaos marines force. But my Chaos marines are red, except for my "Death Eaters" (Death Company World Eaters) who are painted black. My 'regular' berzerkers have bone helmets (like the BA yellow helmets) etc. So apart from the models being chaosy, the paintwork 'looks' BA (and colour, eg of helmets, is the main difference between BA units), so there should be no surprises for my opponent.

As long as you bear in mind the principle that what you're representing should be obvious and/or logical (so things that look the same have the same rules), 'counts as' can be a really liberating way to play.

But, whether you decide to go down the 'somehow corrupted Grey Knights' route, or the 'elite Chaos force that just happens to use the Daemonhunter Army list' route, I'd be interested to hear what you come up with to explain these terrifying new servants of Chaos!

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post #9 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-23-09, 12:10 AM
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Well one way, least on Apoc games. Field Grey Knight models as your zombies, for the Plague of Zombies unit choice. Though you would lose any thing special about them, that way.
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post #10 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-23-09, 05:42 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Son of mortarion View Post
It does seem as if the reasoning is iffy, more an excuse to have grey knights that are servants of chaos because you want grey knights, than a real, "it could happen in the 40k universe" reason.

Instead of trying to make a grey knight that serves chaos, how about making a servant of chaos that is equivalent, like Red Orc said. Instead of a nemisis force halberd, a minor daemon weapon, instead of psycannons, warp infused heavy bolter/autocannon/stubber type weapon, there is no reason that you can't take the rules, apply the "counts as" principle, and then create a good, fluffy unit. Just avoid any reasoning that requires a '"what if," that tends towards rationalizing bending/breaking fluff and or rules for who can ally with who.
But then their not grey knights. If you combined normtheunsavory's idea with that it would make more sense, like the first grey knights were faulty so they decided to kill them but the faulty grey knights found out before they were killed so they ran away and gave their fealty to chaos because they felt they had been betrayed.I would also look cool, with a deamon halberd and stuff like that

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