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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-17, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
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Default Primaris Marines and the Acceptance of the Chapters

Saw this thread on B&C, and thought I might bring it to you guys.


Primaris and the Black Templars - + Black Templars + - The Bolter and Chainsword


Like Brian Potter in Phoenix Nights* - "I don't know if you've noticed, but I collect Black Templars", or at least have been doing since 3rd; Ive got shit loads of those fanatical bastards!
Up until relatively recently when I became disillusioned (and somewhat distracted by Iron Warriors), I was still cracking out crusader squads and land raider crusaders to kill heretics, burn witches and generally bonk Big-Es enemies on the head... Now I don't know where Helbrecht and the Templarly order stands. Do we like Daddy G, it seems like, as a few on the B&C thread have said - some admech robot turned up, made an alliance with a bunch of stinking xenos and some traitor who claims he isn't, resurrected Girlyman and then pulled some fancy new marines out of his backside he's been secretly working on since the Heresy.


Is he saying that Big-E didn't do his best work; or GodEmps forbid, is he saying that he's better than Big-E? Because that shit just is NOT going to fly with Grimaldus and the rest of the guys.


It seems that all the chapters have simply gone along with this plan of the New Imperium, but we heard all that before with the Imperium Secundus. I saw SoH and his idea with the new marines, and I have to say (regardless of aestetic etc) they have sort of been shoehorned in there with no-one paying much attention to where the hell they came from, and WHY.






THOUGHTS??!!!?!?




* Probably a reference only the UK audience will get, but everyone should g-search it for a laugh.
** If this should go into another thread, delete it and let me know where to carry on the discussion.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-17, 02:56 PM
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They really haven't been shoehorned in, what brought about the creation of the Primaris marines was explained by and large.

Guilliman had Cawl work on rebuilding the ranks of the then legioness astartes during the Scouring and before the project could be completed Guilliman was struck down by Fulgrim (not during the Scouring mind you.) Without the backing of Guilliman, Cawl lost a great mind and powerful backing/protection for his work.

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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-17, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
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But since then, a LOT has changed in the imperium, the chapters/legions have become more autonomous and some (like wolves and Templars for example) particularly set in their ways. I get that gulliman and cawl came up with them (and then the project got shelved), and so the ultramarines have had them introduced into their ranks, but surely not every chaptermaster in the adeptus astartes has accepted them - after all, non-codex chapters have been giving gulliman the two fingered salute for ten thousand years, so why are they now all chummy?
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-17, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
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but surely not every chaptermaster in the adeptus astartes has accepted them
No, only roughly 94% of all chapter have accepted Primaris marines at this point. While many chapters can draw their genetic legacy back to the Ultramarines, an equal number of chapters have undoubtedly found themselves understrength and in dire need of reinforcement. Crimson Fists, Flesh Tearers, Marines Malevolent, and Mantis Warriors, just to name a few, are all chapters with strength below 50% and in dire need of a way to bolster their ranks.

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- after all, non-codex chapters have been giving gulliman the two fingered salute for ten thousand years, so why are they now all chummy?
Actually there are only a handful of chapters as divergent from the codex astartes as the Space Wolves. When you really stop and think about it, though the Space Wolves maintain their traditions and practices, they do, in their own way, loosely follow Guillimans codex. There are less than two thousand Space Wolves (less after the events of the Gathering Storm) broken into twelve companies.


Also keep in mind that in present 40k while traditions and things might have slightly altered in ten thousand years, a primarch, the gene sons of the Emperor, still deserves respect. The Black Templars were the ones who stood against the traitor legions when they returned, the same traitors that Guilliman himself drove from Imperial space. I'd argue that Guilliman is the only other primarch the Templars respect nearly as much as their own.

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-17, 07:21 PM
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The Space Wolves are not fans of the Primaris, apparently. "Russ' warrior-sons of the older breed remain aloof..." despite there now being successor chapters, including one named the Wolf Spears. That's what a primaris captain said to his SW sgt in DI when the sgt received his assignment to said successors.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-17, 09:16 PM
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I'll note again that the most divergent Chapters ( Space Wolves, Blood Angels ) got a very convenient downsizing to 'barely surviving' in fluff just before the Primaris arrived on the scene. So... Accept Primaris Marines or likely go extinct as you try to rebuilt from a tiny remnant over the next few hundred years.

The Black Templars are one of the few Chapters with both the pull and the numbers not to jump at Guilliman's offer (even though they DID lose all but a handful of a full Crusade at Cadia) so they could have taken the time to make a more informed choice. Celestine's opinion might've been given some weight?

Still want to shake Guy Haley and the rest of the BL crew for Dark Imperium not even MENTIONING her...

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-17, 09:55 PM
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Still want to shake Guy Haley and the rest of the BL crew for Dark Imperium not even MENTIONING her...
It is the start of a series designed to show us where the Imperium is at currently, so she might show up in later novels.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-17, 10:00 PM
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Just want to point out, the Blood Angels are not that divergent from the codes astartes. While they favour assault squads and have the death company they otherwise operate as any other codex chapter.

It's the same with the Dark Angels, whose most divergent trait is the ravenwing.

Damnation is paved on good intentions; subtle and sugar coated or blunt and honest
A hero is someone who steps up when everyone else backs down.
Popularity is what people strive for when they lack the strength to be themselves.


Seriously, is it really that hard to write reviews without spoilers?

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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-17, 10:43 PM
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The sons of Sanguinius actually diverge quite a bit, though most of it is distinctly more subtle than the Space Wolves (... okay, more subtlety than the Wolves isn't a high bar to cross).

-Combat style divergence gets underlined with adaptations on vehicles (Furioso and Libby Dreads, Baal Pred).
-Organisation also diverges with the inclusion of the Sanguinary Priests
-Likely because of the Flaws, Legion spirit still very alive. Note the successors still answer Dante's call with relative ease - see his call for tithes from the successors and the even more recent defense of Baal. Only part of that is Dante himself.
-Astorath operates across all Blood Angel successors

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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-08-17, 08:12 AM Thread Starter
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I've not read dark imperium yet - how did SW get nerfed?


Out of all the 40k chapters, the majority are ultramarines descendants, so you would think that they would fill up first (and how long does it take for them to make these bigmarines anyways; normal marines are scouts for a good couple of decades I thought).


I can see Sanguinius' lot accepting them given there's only about ten left, but I cant see space wolves and Templars being all too overjoyed with gulliman picking up his dads sword, pumping out a new astartes and launching a crusade - he may be the emperors son, but he sort of has form in mini empire building!


I disagree with darkreaver about the Templars having the greatest of respect for gulliman because he drove chaos back - he's a goddam primarch and warrior of the imperium, death or victory are their own reward. A vague respect because he's a direct son of the emperor is as far as I'd stretch. Templars hold most 1st founding chapters in contempt because they have stayed in formation to protect civilians instead of crushing the enemy under their boots. Anything less than complete and utter devotion to destroying all enemies of the Emperor isn't worth passing the salt in the mess hall, and only barely a step away from a bolt round between the eyes.


If theres (reportedly) 5000 Templars, of which at least 2000 went with Helbrecht, Yarrick etc to chase down Ghazgul, there would still be another 2000 kicking about on smaller crusades, and they usually replenish 20% of normal losses from local populations when they find viable planets; loss of a single crusade (which was pretty small really from what I've read from B&C etc) is almost negligible in the grand scheme.


What's next; Templars having primaris librarians; don't make me sort my milk!
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