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post #11 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-01-16, 03:36 PM
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if you squint the Sigmar stuff doesn't all look like the love children from a Necron and Blood Angel orgy.
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post #12 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-01-16, 05:09 PM
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*lets out a long sigh and drags out her soapbox*
*kicks soapbox over*
You didn't actually read the OP, did you?

The OP was about a potential reason why there were no female Space marines, not asking why there could not be any.
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post #13 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-01-16, 06:11 PM
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You didn't actually read the OP, did you?

The OP was about a potential reason why there were no female Space marines, not asking why there could not be any.
Yes, I did read the OP. At the end of their post they opened the floor to 'Thoughts, or disagreements?'. Which is what I put forth.

My post, if you read it closely, was to the thought that of all the odd points of lore in the 30/40k universe that people accept without question- why is it that the 'no female astartes' seems to be a sticking point in people's craws when the lore is very clear on the matter. Basically, I was asking why is it that this bit of established lore seems to be always questioned over others. It is why I prefaced my post with the allusion of the soapbox- meaning I was about to air a personal view on a topic (something that the OP encouraged at the end of their post).

After that I went on to touch on the secondary topic(s) raised in the thread, referencing points of cannon and offering my own personal opinion on it.
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post #14 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-01-16, 07:25 PM
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There are no female astartes and there never will be and the fluff is absolutely concrete that the made up science doesn't work on the lady people with the boob things. That's as far as it goes; if you introduce real science 40k falls apart at the best of times. The only thing I can think of that's even a vague shot is the Daemonculabula, which was a. a woman with astartes gene seed and b. as far as I know accepted female 'aspirants' as well as male, but what crawled out after 'the process' was usually hard to call a space marine at the best of times. God knows what it'd do to someone that wasn't already an ideal astartes candidate i.e. a woman.

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post #15 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-01-16, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
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I agree the made up science suffers when real science shows up but it was a way I could see using real science to justify the made up science.

Basically I was bouncing my random brain leavings for the sake of possible discussion.
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post #16 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-01-16, 08:47 PM
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Yes, I did read the OP. At the end of their post they opened the floor to 'Thoughts, or disagreements?'. Which is what I put forth.
Ah, so you misunderstood the post then, I think.

The post was asking about thoughts or disagreements about the idea of the Y chromosome's "short leg" allowed the Emperor and his fleshsmiths to scribble in some extra instructions (as opposed to a woman's double Xs having no space, apparently. I have little knowledge about genetics and chromosomes).

I don't believe the OP was asking why there weren't any female Space Marines.

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Basically, I was asking why is it that this bit of established lore seems to be always questioned over others.
Basically because in a universe of daemons, basically magic, and incredibly advanced medical science that is basically magic, it seems odd that women are singled out of the Space Marine club.

With all that went into the making of the primarchs and space marines, seems odd to cut your recruiting pool in half.

Compared to the rest of the universe, it seems like it requires a reader to suspend their disbelief a bit.

Which I do, but it's still something odd.
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post #17 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-01-16, 11:24 PM
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Ah, so you misunderstood the post then, I think.

The post was asking about thoughts or disagreements about the idea of the Y chromosome's "short leg" allowed the Emperor and his fleshsmiths to scribble in some extra instructions (as opposed to a woman's double Xs having no space, apparently. I have little knowledge about genetics and chromosomes).

I don't believe the OP was asking why there weren't any female Space Marines.



Basically because in a universe of daemons, basically magic, and incredibly advanced medical science that is basically magic, it seems odd that women are singled out of the Space Marine club.

With all that went into the making of the primarchs and space marines, seems odd to cut your recruiting pool in half.

Compared to the rest of the universe, it seems like it requires a reader to suspend their disbelief a bit.

Which I do, but it's still something odd.
People are just going to have to get over the fact that females are different than males.

Secondly once you're wearing power armor no one is going to be noticing that you have boobs.


Seeing as how boobie armor is extremely stupid and has never been done in history.

The blood angels chest armor thing is a different story altogether.
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post #18 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-02-16, 01:11 AM
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Ah, so you misunderstood the post then, I think.
No, I understood where the OP was going with their thoughts on the matter- giving a possible modern scientific explanation as to why the astartes process only works on males.

But, this is not modern science. We already know that the Emperor's own male genecode, warpcraft, and all sorts of voodoo was thoroughly tangled up in the creation of the Primarchs and, subsequently, their Legions.

My point was why do we really need a detailed explanation? Why does this particular bit of lore have to be explained above and beyond the already numerous references in the lore that it simply doesn't work on females?

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Originally Posted by hailene View Post
Basically because in a universe of daemons, basically magic, and incredibly advanced medical science that is basically magic, it seems odd that women are singled out of the Space Marine club.

With all that went into the making of the primarchs and space marines, seems odd to cut your recruiting pool in half.

Compared to the rest of the universe, it seems like it requires a reader to suspend their disbelief a bit.

Which I do, but it's still something odd.
If you look at it as a numbers game and in breeding terms, not in a society bound by political correctness, it actually makes logical sense to limit it to males only.

You are looking to create the perfect warrior- strong, highly physical, highly aggressive. Traits that are, as a whole, naturally higher in human males. This is a simple biological fact. Not to mention that adding testosterone to a 'normal' woman to meet the same natural level found in a male causes all sorts of issues biologically.

Because of how human reproduction works, a healthy population can stand to lose more males and still remain viable to recoup the loss suffered in a much shorter time than if it lost the same number of females.
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post #19 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-02-16, 01:32 AM Thread Starter
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Why over explain lore? Because I think it's fun. I mean I am same person who spent the better part of a day researching the Imperium's rough population to try and work out a realistic number of Sisters of Battle for the setting. Stuff like this is what I do.

And lengthenibg the short leg on the Y just seems like it's have less possible ways to wrong than lengthening the legs on the X beyond what it is. The body could read an X chromosome (even if it was essentially a fake X made to trick the body into running additional instructions) over expecting it to read a gene it's not designed to read. Additionally regular Marines require no voodoo or else they would need psykers or sorcerors to create instead of apothocaries.

One fluff justification I think Insawfor the lack of female Marines is that it's to keep the Marines tied to humanity, to be dependent on them so they could never breed on their own and become completely devoid of their human roots or reject those they protect.

Which is an arguement I like, but I also like my gene one too.
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post #20 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-02-16, 02:05 AM
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Actually, there is some very specific 'voodoo' required for standard astartes.

It is called geneseed.

They cannot produce more geneseed from scratch, as it requires already mature geneseed to grow more in the body of a new astartes. Much to the dismay of Legions that suffered great losses in the heresy.

No geneseed, no astartes. Geneseed is a direct genetic line back to the first astartes, the Primarchs, and the Emperor's original 'voodoo'.

It might not require a pysker to install it, but it sure was created by one of the greatest psykers to live.
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