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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-31-15, 11:47 AM
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You are all mistaken. There is no such legion as the Alpha Legion. You have all been terribly misinformed. I would suggest that a moderator close this thread to prevent any further misinformation being spread.
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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-31-15, 11:50 AM
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I think the beauty of the XX is they could be the largest legion, but only one or two people would ever know. Similarly they could be the smallest!

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Originally Posted by alt-f4 View Post
"Deliverance Lost" may give some clues about the way the Alpha Legion are able to replenish their losses faster than any other legion/chapter.

The Alpha Legion is the most powerful in matter of deception and planning, for sure. But I'm not sure that they are better than Iron Warriors for a siege, Word Bearers within the Eye of Terror or Ultramarines for purely battlefield tactics and strategy. Do you think, for instance, that they would have done better than the Thousand Sons against the Space Wolves, or than the Space Wolves against the Thousand Sons ?
Yes.

"Alpharius has gone too far this time. Bring him to me, dead or alive"
"Okay"

The Space Wolves set off for the AL homeworld

"Wait... where are we going?"

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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-31-15, 09:06 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alt-f4 View Post
"Deliverance Lost" may give some clues about the way the Alpha Legion are able to replenish their losses faster than any other legion/chapter.

The Alpha Legion is the most powerful in matter of deception and planning, for sure. But I'm not sure that they are better than Iron Warriors for a siege, Word Bearers within the Eye of Terror or Ultramarines for purely battlefield tactics and strategy. Do you think, for instance, that they would have done better than the Thousand Sons against the Space Wolves, or than the Space Wolves against the Thousand Sons ?
The answer is yes. Clearly, all Legions are not equal and Space Wolves have no hope against full might of Alpha Legion even in the full frontal assault, and despite of their formidable psychic might, Thousand Sons are too small for making any difference.

Remember the fact that a splinter fleet of Alpha Legion was more than match entire might of the lauded Wolves and almost managed to obliterate them.

After reading the Calth, I started to doubt the vaunted battlefield adaptation of Ultramarines. Sever their heads, and Ultras become complete morons. Their doctrine is rigid and unimaginative, their tactics and strategies are time-proved hackneyed, their equipment are cheap and mass produced variants, their navies are meager and wholly dependent on the fleets of Excertus Imperialis, etc.

All in all, it is not surprising that staple tactics of 13th Legion is no other than mass assault using their number and discipline in the fullest...exactly same as the World Bearers.

Really, Forge World utterly shattered what rosy fantasy I had had about 30k Ultamarines.

In my opinion, Alpha Legions battlefield tactics and strategy, typically known as "Harrowing" is arguably superior than that of Ultramarines, if they are given enough time for preparation and before readied and complete their rehearsals, Alpha Legion would never pit against Ultramarines head-to-head. And anyway, they are much more flexible, pliable and creative than doctrine-bound Ultramarines. I bet only the White Scars can match Alpha Legion in terms of initiative, individual thought and creativity.

However they lack of Alphas discipline, force cohesion and unity of purpose and seldom cooperate -- simply put, they are too unpredictable and that is the reason why they never trusted by Imperial commanders, other Primarchs and indeed, Emperor himself.

And just one more talk. IIRC, you asked the source of the Alpha Legion recuperation speed. The source is Forge World Books and that is before timeperiod of Deliverance Lost. They always phenomenally fast at replenishing their loss and their gene seed was one of the most pure, stable and efficient from their incipient.

Yes, they are the closest thing of the Mary Sue in 30k galaxy.

Last edited by Santor; 11-01-15 at 12:03 AM.
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-31-15, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santor View Post
Sever their heads, and Ultras become complete morons.
Is that a joke about their Primarch? ...cuz I'm laughing.

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-31-15, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
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Is that a joke about their Primarch? ...cuz I'm laughing.
That is intentionally rendered ambiguous...

Thank you for laughing! You make me have become proud of my wit...
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-31-15, 11:01 PM
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I wouldn't say they're anywhere close to being mary sues or even being the most powerful legion in the galaxy.
A legion like the space wolves or ultramarines are united in what they're doing, they don't have to wonder if another legionary is operating under secret orders, because they know they themselves are.
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-31-15, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santor View Post
And just one more talk. IIRC, you asked the source of the Alpha Legion recuperation speed. The source is Forge World Books and that is before timeperiod of Deliverance Lost. They always phenomenally fast at replenishing their loss and their gene seed was one of the most pure, stable and efficient from their incipient.

Yes, they are the closest thing of the Mary Sue in 30k galaxy.
Well ... I didn't ask for anything, actually. You have asked a question about the power of the Alpha Legion, and I understand the first answer better now, as your goal does not seem to be discussing or finding clues and opinions about it, but to impose your own point of view that seems to be the only one correct answer.

So, yes. Alpha Legion is the most powerful legion, and Omegon is now sitting up the Golden Throne, smirking at the Cabal for his best trick upon them

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Originally Posted by Squire View Post
"Alpharius has gone too far this time. Bring him to me, dead or alive"
"Okay"

The Space Wolves set off for the AL homeworld

"Wait... where are we going?"
I talked about the battle itself, not the way or place to start it

Actually, except for Istvann V, I have never read anything about a massive Alpha Legion deployment and battle in open ground, nor even any defensive stance. Even if I like Alpha Legion a lot, I still think that other legions/chapters are better than them in such situations.

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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-01-15, 12:22 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alt-f4 View Post
Well ... I didn't ask for anything, actually. You have asked a question about the power of the Alpha Legion, and I understand the first answer better now, as your goal does not seem to be discussing or finding clues and opinions about it, but to impose your own point of view that seems to be the only one correct answer.

So, yes. Alpha Legion is the most powerful legion, and Omegon is now sitting up the Golden Throne, smirking at the Cabal for his best trick upon them .
Nope. Most definitely not. I do not have any love or affection regarding Alpha Legion. You are totally wrong about my intention and motives.

On the contrary, I deeply hate them. I vehemently hate and despise the way they are portrayed by BL and FW. And how they are so easily and implausibly deceived and manipulated by the Cabal. Also I hate their delineation of Ultramarines, which are one of my favorites.

So I researched, and more I study and inquire, I am only become more certain and over and over vindicated that Alpha Legion are overwanked and I wish to see as many as opposed evidences and counter opinions and objections.

In short, I am playing a sort of the Devil's Advocate.

And IIRC, you asked me the source of Alpha Legion and at some point deleted it and I am lately answered about that question. However of course, my memory is failable and it is possible I am confusing you with other person or even construct entire memory anew.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alt-f4 View Post
I talked about the battle itself, not the way or place to start it

Actually, except for Istvann V, I have never read anything about a massive Alpha Legion deployment and battle in open ground, nor even any defensive stance. Even if I like Alpha Legion a lot, I still think that other legions/chapters are better than them in such situations.
Tesstra Prime, Paramar, Chondax and Alaxxes say hello.

Especially Alaxxes. They are so wanked that some portion of Alpha Legion fleets are more than match of entire Wolves fleets.
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-01-15, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santor View Post
Nope. Most definitely not. I do not have any affection regarding Alpha Legion. You are totally wrong about my intention and motives.

On the contrary, I deeply hate them. I vehemently hate and despise the way they are portrayed by BL and FW. And how they are so easily and implausibly deceived and manipulated by the Cabal. Also I hate their delineation of Ultramarines, which are one of my favorites.

So I researched, and more I study and inquire, I am only become more certain and over and over vindicated that Alpha Legion are overwanked and I wish to see as many as opposed evidences and counter opinions and objections.

In short, I am playing a sort of the Devil's Advocate.
Whether you love or hate Alpha Legion does not change the fact that you came here with a question just for providing your own answer to it.

Quote:
And IIRC, you asked me the source of Alpha Legion and at some point deleted it. However of course, my memory is failable and it is possible I am confusing you with other person or even construct entire memory anew.
You're completely out of point. I come here to discuss and share, not to argue or troll. I can't see any reason to delete a post where I would have asked a question.

Quote:
Paramar, Chondax and Alaxxes say hello.

Especially Alaxxes. They are so overwanked that some portion of Alpha Legion fleets are more than match of entire Wolves fleets.
Hello.

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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-01-15, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santor View Post
The answer is yes. Clearly, all Legions are not equal and Space Wolves have no hope against full might of Alpha Legion even in the full frontal assault, and despite of their formidable psychic might, Thousand Sons are too small for making any difference.

Remember the fact that a splinter fleet of Alpha Legion was more than match entire might of the lauded Wolves and almost managed to obliterate them.
The Wolves were exhausted at that point and had suffered huge losses post Prospero. It's no coincidence the AL ambushed them at their weakest moment.
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