I came to wonder.. Word Bearers vs. Black Templars? - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-02-15, 05:55 PM Thread Starter
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Default I came to wonder.. Word Bearers vs. Black Templars?

Why haven't this been explored more? Could make for some rather interesting tales of how the Word Bearers is trying to break the faith of the Black Templars, seeing in them mirrors of what they themselves used to be.

Or might it be too painful for the Word Bearers to see or face Astartes in the very position they briefly had ten thousand years earlier of outright worshipping the Emperor?

Perhaps add an uncorrupted Pre-Heresy Word Bearer into the mix, whom had been lost in stasis since the Great Crusade. Whom perhaps is mistaken for being a Black Templar when initially discovered, due to his dedication.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-02-15, 08:25 PM
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Erm, ok?
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-03-15, 03:17 AM
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There's many Chapters that view the Emperor as a God. I don't know why the Word Bearers would go out their way to find the Black Templars and "educate" them.

Plus it's not like the Black Templars have a traditional fortress monastery. There's no real Black Templar homeworld they can take.

The Black Templars are scattered the breadth and width of the Imperium and beyond. Even cornering a single Crusade wouldn't avail to much. The Black Templars are simply too spread out and too isolated from each other to really change their orgainization.

And I'm not sure how a pre-heresy Word Bearer could ever be misconstrued as a Black Templar. Pre-heresy, the Word Bearers wore gray armor and lacked the Black Templar tabard as well.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-03-15, 07:28 AM Thread Starter
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From the Eternal Crusader novella:

‘Now is not your turn to speak, Champion. We know of your objections. Confessor, holy father, give me your opinion.’ Halquon, a shrewd man with a sharp face, came forwards. He was young, but a twisted spine caused him to go about perpetually hunched and clutching at his staff, as if he were burdened with the weight of his office. ‘The Ecclesiarchy recognises Chaplain Mordred’s wishes. You will find no objection from our diocese. I cannot speak for all, but the episcopal rede of Ultima Segmentum has voted in Grimaldus’s favour.’ ‘What has the rede to do with our affairs?’ asked Bayard. He was particularly short-tempered, and his lack of respect offended some of the others. ‘Among the Adeptus Astartes, you are the sole followers of the great truth of the Imperium, my lord,’ said Halquon to Bayard. ‘That the Emperor is a god. Your spiritual decisions are of great interest to us.’

The Black Templars have an ecclesiarchy representative onboard the Eternal Crusader as part of their inner circle.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-03-15, 08:29 AM
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In The Emperor's Gift, Hyperion mentions that Chapters worshiping the Emperor as a god are "rare"--which would imply there has been more than one.

This is in response to one of the Red Hunters' Astartes saying "God-Emperor".

Guessing who has more access to Astartes' records, Hyperion, a Grey-Knight stationed on Titan, or the Ecclesiarchical representative...I'm putting my money on Hyperion.

And I wouldn't put the Black Templar's religious worship anywhere near the Word Bearers' pre-heresy.

In Helsreach, a sister of battle tries to find some common ground with a Reclusiarch as fellow warriors for the Ecclesiarchy. Here are his thoughts:

"Ah. She seeks common ground. Good luck to her in this doomed endeavour. She is a warrior of the Imperial Creed, and an officer in the Church of the God-Emperor.

I am not."
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-03-15, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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Hrm, author inconsistency maybe. But Eternal Crusader is a prequel to Hellsreach by Guy Haley, and the ecclesiarchal representative was voting in favor for raising Grimaldus to the status of Reclusiarch.


Another snippet from it, they quite idolize their astropaths for being touched by the Emperor.

So loud was the hymn of the Templars as they purged themselves of their shame that at first none heard the second opening of the great doors, nor the intrusion of a different tune. Pure and high, it infiltrated and complemented the harsh, basso-profundo hymn of the transhuman warriors. Beginning softly, so softly that even enhanced Adeptus Astartes senses could not hear it, it rose until it was unmissable. Helbrecht sought its source. Finding it, he fell to his knees. Making her way down the long aisle from the great portal of Dorn came Mistress Anyanka Dei Osper, Astropath Prime of the Ghoul Stars Crusade. A hundred thralls attended her: a dozen at the fore of her procession sweeping the spotless floor with sanctified brooms, lest her purity be compromised. Five rows of cybernetic castrati followed them, singing the song of annunciation. Beyond these came books containing the names of every member of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica ever assigned to the Black Templars and the collected interpretations of their messages. The books were chained to rings sunk into the flesh of bearers whose mouths were sealed by staples of gold. More came – men clutching heavy brass poles topped with candles the thickness of a thigh, censer-bearers, water-bearers, factotums and body servants. Then came Dei Osper’s bodyguard: twenty heavily armed Adeptus Astra Telepathica bonded warriors, each carrying double-handed swords and shields whose heraldry was divided between that of the Black Templars and their mistress’s adepta. Finally, the long train of her robes borne by fluttering vat-constructs, came the Most Holy Mistress Osper. The Black Templars changed their song to one of lesser volume, forming a counterpoint to the choir of cyber-thralls and relinquishing dominance to the voices of the astropath’s servants. As one, they turned to face her and touched their heads to the floor. The Chaplains knelt and bowed their heads except Theoderic, who raised his crozius and shouted,‘Welcome, welcome, bid welcome to Blessed Mistress Anyanka Dei Osper, touched by the Emperor! Pay obeisance, give your awe! Here is one who has seen the light of the Lord of Man!’ He too knelt then. So the Black Templars remained, softly chanting, until Osper had traversed the two hundred metres to their place of gathering. Her procession parted and halted. The songs diminished to a murmur. Her bodyguards pivoted to line the aisle, clashing their blades upon their shields, and knelt, allowing Osper to come forward to greet the High Marshal. The hymns quietened to a drone. ‘Blessed Lady, to what do we owe this honour?’ asked Helbrecht. ‘Too infrequently do you bring the light of the Emperor to us. We thank you for the blessing of your presence.’
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-03-15, 07:48 PM
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I'm not quite sure what point you're driving home with your quotes.

The fact the Black Templars few the Emperor as a god is not in question.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-03-15, 08:59 PM
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I don't think that any Word Bearer left alive would give two winks about the Black Templar's love of the Empruh.

It's been 10,000+ years, and they have a new girlfriend now (Chaos).

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-03-15, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
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Hence the comment of one recovered from stasis to contrast them against each other.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-03-15, 10:25 PM
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I don't think that Word Bearers care about the deification of the Emperor, except, maybe, as the remembrance of a good joke. They have realized, during the Great Crusade, that the Emperor was no god at all (as he claimed it himself) and found out true gods to believe in.

What do I mean by "good joke" ?

Lorgar is the author of the Lectio Divinatus. And just after Erebus came upon the Vengeful Spirit, whispering, amongst others, into Horus' ears that the Emperor wanted to be a God, the Lectio Divinatus started to spread within the human population of the ship. Coincidence ?

The Serrated Flame : a First Heretics army

- Primordial Truth is Humanity's only salvation -
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