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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-15, 08:43 PM Thread Starter
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Default Why no Salamanders successors?

Just to clarify I mean from the 3rd founding onwards as we know why there are no 2nd founding successors.

After all the only information we have about their geneseed says:

"As far as can be determined by the Magos Biologis of the Adeptus Mechanicus, the Salamander's gene-seed appears to be both stable and as yet uncorrupted."

So why no new Chapters? Why use Ultramarines geneseed ahead of the Salamanders when the Salamanders geneseed is described in Massacre as in the screenshot attached to this post as superior in resistance to temperature and only the DG have a greater tolerance to toxins.

We know that Terra kept stocks of all 18 legions geneseed and so there would be spare geneseed to use. It could be argued that this was destroyed in the Siege of Terra so ok, in the 10k years since how much geneseed has been given by the Salamanders to the Adeptus Terra tythe so there will have been enough to produce many times the 1000 needed to produce a new Chapter.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-15, 09:57 PM
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Perhaps it is because people in the imperium are very xenophobic and the black skin and red eyes of the salamanders unsettles and upsets them? That would be my guess.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-15, 10:20 PM
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I believe the daemon-like appearance has been covered as a bit of a negative before. Can't think where though......


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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-15, 10:38 PM
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Perhaps it is because people in the imperium are very xenophobic and the black skin and red eyes of the salamanders unsettles and upsets them? That would be my guess.
The black skin and red eyes is reaction between the geneseed and the inherent radioactivity on Nocturne, so if a successor chapter were raised on another planet, the issue wouldn't arise.

We also know that as the Heresy stands, there are only approx 800 Salamanders, so they would have been in no position to contribute to the second founding even if they wanted to. Which they weren't. Vulkan, along with Russ and Dorn, was a big opponent of the Codex Astartes, and eventually only went along with it in the end for fear of a second civil war if he didn't.

It is rumoured that the Black Dragons were founded using Salamander geneseed, but no-one knows for sure.
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-18-15, 12:24 AM
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The black skin and red eyes is reaction between the geneseed and the inherent radioactivity on Nocturne, so if a successor chapter were raised on another planet, the issue wouldn't arise.
The codex image in the OP indicates the eyes are a factor of the gene seed, even on Terra, while the skin pigmentation occurs with any extended radiation exposure... which Nocturne has in ample supply, given, but I think the factors would manifest in any successors with the variety of environments Astartes encounter over their hundreds of years of life.

It is weird they have no successor chapters. Outside of their appearance giving people the willies, I wonder if Vulkan's status as a Perpetual has played any role in this? It probably wasn't known outside of highest levels of the Lords of Terra, but might go into the decision making to just leave them alone. Wouldn't that be interesting, to have a whole Chapter or even Legion of perpetuals?

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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-18-15, 02:04 AM
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Well the sallies dies like anyone else, they certainly havent inherited that trait. Unlike Corax's shadowwalking that some of his sons share.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-18-15, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
The black skin and red eyes is reaction between the geneseed and the inherent radioactivity on Nocturne, so if a successor chapter were raised on another planet, the issue wouldn't arise.

We also know that as the Heresy stands, there are only approx 800 Salamanders, so they would have been in no position to contribute to the second founding even if they wanted to. Which they weren't. Vulkan, along with Russ and Dorn, was a big opponent of the Codex Astartes, and eventually only went along with it in the end for fear of a second civil war if he didn't.

It is rumoured that the Black Dragons were founded using Salamander geneseed, but no-one knows for sure.
There may have been only 800 left at the end of the Heresy but at the end of Istvaan V there were approximately 3000 of them left as per the attached screenshot.

Good call about the Black Dragons, it would be interesting to know what they looked like out of their armour (ie their eyes and skin)

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Originally Posted by Over Two Meters Tall! View Post
The codex image in the OP indicates the eyes are a factor of the gene seed, even on Terra, while the skin pigmentation occurs with any extended radiation exposure... which Nocturne has in ample supply, given, but I think the factors would manifest in any successors with the variety of environments Astartes encounter over their hundreds of years of life.

It is weird they have no successor chapters. Outside of their appearance giving people the willies, I wonder if Vulkan's status as a Perpetual has played any role in this? It probably wasn't known outside of highest levels of the Lords of Terra, but might go into the decision making to just leave them alone. Wouldn't that be interesting, to have a whole Chapter or even Legion of perpetuals?
I'm not sure that Vulkan being a perpetual would be know even by the High lords. I reckon that like Corax's ability it was probably known by the Emperor and probably Alpharius too as we know from the Seventh Serpent that he knows about Corax's ability.

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Well the sallies dies like anyone else, they certainly havent inherited that trait. Unlike Corax's shadowwalking that some of his sons share.
Fair point but having extra resilient Marines descended from a loyal Legion wouldn't hurt.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-18-15, 07:23 PM
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Good call about the Black Dragons, it would be interesting to know what they looked like out of their armour (ie their eyes and skin)
There's a BD featured in one of Kyme's Salamander novels, but I can't remember how he was described.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-18-15, 09:16 PM
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This image is from Death of Antagonis.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-19-15, 02:36 AM
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From Armageddon, though they had strengths that gave them better resistance to heat conditions and toxins, they were slightly slower and smaller than their other kin. It was enough that older stats gave them basic initiative of three.
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