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post #21 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-17-15, 01:31 AM
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Good post.
I don't have the time to write a detailed response, but I agree with most of the points, but given the whole mutation thing nothing can be ruled out.

I remember there was a audio drama strike and fade I believe it was called that dealt with the aftermath of Isstivan V basically it was a group of marines doing what they had to do to survive, scavenging and being fairly pragmatic.

Perhaps they're not descendants of one chapter but rather a fusion of the Salamanders, Raven guard and Iron hands.

They're able to keep functioning with basically scavenged equipment only. Sure they might not show the iron hands skills but they don't have the resources they do, so what they can fix it fairly limited.


Just a thought.
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post #22 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-17-15, 09:18 AM
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That would/could of course lead you down the path of a chapter creating neophytes with multiple strands(?) of gene-seed......


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post #23 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-17-15, 09:29 AM
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That would/could of course lead you down the path of a chapter creating neophytes with multiple strands(?) of gene-seed......
That would be pretty heretic, if you ask me. If this was the truth i can totally see why they are barely tolerated and have a 14 yo attitude "Mom never wanted me, and dad beated me and called me a bastard. You ALL gonna pay!"

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post #24 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-17-15, 09:40 AM
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That would be pretty heretic, if you ask me.
Wouldn't it just?


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post #25 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-17-15, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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I don't have the time to write a detailed response, but I agree with most of the points, but given the whole mutation thing nothing can be ruled out.

I remember there was a audio drama strike and fade I believe it was called that dealt with the aftermath of Isstivan V basically it was a group of marines doing what they had to do to survive, scavenging and being fairly pragmatic.

Perhaps they're not descendants of one chapter but rather a fusion of the Salamanders, Raven guard and Iron hands.

They're able to keep functioning with basically scavenged equipment only. Sure they might not show the iron hands skills but they don't have the resources they do, so what they can fix it fairly limited.

Just a thought.
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That would/could of course lead you down the path of a chapter creating neophytes with multiple strands(?) of gene-seed......
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That would be pretty heretic, if you ask me. If this was the truth i can totally see why they are barely tolerated and have a 14 yo attitude "Mom never wanted me, and dad beated me and called me a bastard. You ALL gonna pay!"
Wow, didn't see that coming but IMO the mixed geneseed idea is now my favourite. We don't know what a Marine with Salamander geneseed who has never been to Nocturne looks like. They might be white skinned.

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post #26 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-17-15, 10:26 PM
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That would/could of course lead you down the path of a chapter creating neophytes with multiple strands(?) of gene-seed......
What I'm thinking is this. Groups of isstivan V survivors grouped together and eventually found their way off planet. Where they hooked up with ships made from the mixed groups as well. Scars has a section on them.

Perhaps they saw no reason to return to the imperium reasoning they couldn't trust anyone but themselves so they formed an ad hoc legion.

They got neophytes and implanted some with salamander geneseed and iron hands organs or raven guard or whatever combination you can think of. Eventually the geneseed mutated into a new one.

Along the way things changed the moral compass the salamanders supplied got watered down by the iron hands views and raven guard until only the self reliance part remained.

Because really the marines malevolent aren't just being dicks for the sake of being dicks. They just realize what kind of galaxy they're living in.

Bombarding a refugee camp to kill a few orks, missiles are expendable sending valuable marines with centuries of experience into a situation where they could die defending leechs instead of dying say killing an ork gargant or warboss? That's fairly pragmatic.

Because really those refugees were in the way, they were eating valuable food, drinking valuable water tying up valuable manpower, weapons and equipment, when they could be doing something useful say catching an ork choppa with their bodies or being ablative armor for combat troops.

Not to mention they're being a breeding ground for disease. Oh and also tying up security forces who have more important things to do.
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post #27 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-18-15, 12:20 AM
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Kinda ironic to fanon them as shattered legions, with how much people have been ragging on the shattered legions for having too much airtime. Though I think post the Horus heresy and the second founding, the newborn chapters would be fiercely proud and protective of their legacy, the memmory of the primarchs still too painfully strong to even consider the sacrilege of blending geneseed.

Also, remember the fact that the MMs have been around since M32. I cant imagine they have had a struggle with materiel and wargear for nine thousand years. What I think is more plausible is that their chapter suffered misfortune they still are struggling to recover from. Maybe their chapter world turned out to be a tomb world, and they barely escaped with their lives and have been struggling to rebuild, with nearly no resources. Especially if they possibly had not been on good terms with the imperium beforehand.

Consider the Dark Hunters, shortly after their founding, their new homeworld was beset by the mechanicum renegades of the blind king, which led them to a deep distrust of technology and leaving them low on proper wargear due to poor relations with the mechanicum. But the MMs seems to be even worser off, what they did to annoy the mechanicum or imperial authorities must have happened a long time ago, since they are using a lot of ancient armor, effectively held together with chewing gum and string. Which might be a root of their anger towards mortals, since they are not doing their job to support them, and thusly fanning their rage against mortals and their estrangement even further. A selfdestructive downwards spiral.

A chapter master usually merely have to request something and the imperium provides it, due to ancient treaties and alliances. But if youve made enemy of the mechanicum and not having the exalted pedigree of a first founding legion, it might suddenly not be a high priority to resupply the MMs. Their willingness to sack a forgeship, the Archimedes Rex, directly suggests animosity with the mechanicum.

Last edited by Brother Lucian; 07-18-15 at 12:29 AM.
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