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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-22-15, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
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Default Would it be possible to perfect the space marine process?

In Halo the spartan process was perfected with SPARTAN 4 and now can have them in larger numbers. Is it possible for some mechanicus or very intelligent individual to do this? Hell for all we know the emperor might have wanted to attempt it before the Horus heresy hit.
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-22-15, 09:15 PM
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Corax found a super fast method during the Horus Heresy, but it ended rather badly due to Alpha Legion interference which was never discovered.

And pre-heresy the Astartes process was still a LOT faster than present time. One of the changes during the Second Founding, was that the newly created chapters would use a far more slower and stable method. As the accelerated process used by the legions was prowen to be far too unstable and fingered to be a cause in their betrayal.
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-22-15, 09:17 PM
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I would imagine the answer is yes, but due to the capabilities of space marines and the fact of the Heresy, nobody wants to sign off on mass foundings of marines in case history repeats itself. You also have the dogmatic approach to technology and vested interests of Imperial hierarchy

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-22-15, 09:51 PM
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If it was possible, somebody somewhere would be doing it, be it Mechanicus or Inquisition. I can't really see the =][= not churning out an endless stream of GKs if they could do so.

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As the accelerated process used by the legions was proven to be far too unstable and fingered to be a cause in their betrayal.
I've never read anything that stated that. I think the instability had more to do with the fact that it was often attempted on people beyond the ideal adolescent age group for the process. All the primarchs had a bunch of grown-up comrades, retinues and sidekicks that wanted to join them on the crusade and were willing to put themselves through such a dangerous process to achieve that. Not all of them were successful.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-22-15, 10:03 PM
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If it was possible, somebody somewhere would be doing it, be it Mechanicus or Inquisition. I can't really see the =][= not churning out an endless stream of GKs if they could do so.


I've never read anything that stated that. I think the instability had more to do with the fact that it was often attempted on people beyond the ideal adolescent age group for the process. All the primarchs had a bunch of grown-up comrades, retinues and sidekicks that wanted to join them on the crusade and were willing to put themselves through such a dangerous process to achieve that. Not all of them were successful.
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Space_Marines
The Horus Heresy had also revealed weaknesses in the gene-seed of several Space Marine Legions. These defects had been exacerbated by the accelerated gene-seed cultivation techniques needed to keep the huge Space Marine Legions up to strength. Guilliman believed that the Chaos powers were able to exploit the resultant physical and mental corruption to turn Horus' troops against the Emperor. One of the key objectives of the new Codex Astartes was to recognise and expunge these genetic weaknesses. As a result, the Codex Astartes decreed that Space Marines would forever more be created and trained slowly. The genetic banks used to create Astartes implants would be carefully monitored and scrutinised for any defects. Cultivated organs would be subject to the most stringent tests of purity. Young Initiates would undergo trials of suitability before they were accepted, and only those of the very sternest character would be chosen.
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-22-15, 10:48 PM
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Anything more solid than a wiki?
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-22-15, 11:03 PM
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Anything more solid than a wiki?

That quote from wiki is from codex spacemarines page 8, of course it does say that it was Guillimans "belief" that this led to several legions turning, does not mean he was right. Tbh the process is pretty perfected, with a slower creation process and more rigorous screening process and purity tests on gene seed, but none of this matters as B.L have loyalist chapters turning at the drop of a hat as a weal plot device to top up numbers of traitor marines

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-22-15, 11:19 PM Thread Starter
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The real perfected process would be fast made gene seed with no genetic corruption at all. I say the emperor could have pulled that off but Horus had to throw his temper tantrum
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-23-15, 08:17 PM
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Didn't the Emperor's Children perfect it as the Index Astartes entry says they had every implant functioning at maximum efficiency which no other legion managed and the process was lost after the Heresy

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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-23-15, 10:35 PM
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Corax found a super fast method during the Horus Heresy, but it ended rather badly due to Alpha Legion interference which was never discovered.

And pre-heresy the Astartes process was still a LOT faster than present time. One of the changes during the Second Founding, was that the newly created chapters would use a far more slower and stable method. As the accelerated process used by the legions was prowen to be far too unstable and fingered to be a cause in their betrayal.
You have it the wrong way round.

The Heresy occured, attrition went up, rate of recruitment, and short cuts were made to get people battle ready.

Where once you had mighty, honourable great crusade marines, you were now left with bitter, hollow marines who were but a shadow of what they could have been.

Zerachiel, as far as I'm aware, that fluff is considered retconned entirely, useful only as taster fluff to the Horus Heresy background information laid out in the FW productions, which outright refute such information provided within them as lies and contradict at other times.

The need for Space Marines was coming to an end. The Emperor had no need to perfect it. With the Great Crusade theoretically complete, and everyone converted to the Imperial Truth, and with the belief of the Chaos Gods wiped out, what need was there for Iconoclasts like the Word Bearers? What Cities needed destroying by the IVth? Or letting slip the World Eaters? Or the Night Lords? Horus' own legion would have proved useless. The Lion, Russ, Sanguinius, very little were they needed for; arguments could be made for Sanguinius re Imperium Secundus, but honestly Imperium Secundus needed a Warrior-Emperor and avenging angel figurehead; that was he; Imperium Primus needed no such thing. The Thousand Sons would have had to have been killed at some time, as they continued to practise Warp Magic, and the veneration of the Emperor as a god would have been dangerous, so that is 8 legions at least wiped out. The Khan hated the yoke of the Imperium, but his legion could have been relatively peaceable, but he'd have "rebelled" and fled eventually, so that's 9.

What does that leave us with?

Emperor's Children; maybe, they were reasonably cultural, keep
Raven Guard; no, these would have been nixed
Ultramarines; notable for administration and being relatively peaceable with a geneseed noted as a calming influence, keep
Salamanders; champions of humanity; keep
Iron Hands; nopenopenope
Alpha Legion; who the fuck knows? Whether they wanted to kill them or not they'd stay. To save the trouble, I'd say keep them
Imperial Fists; Praetorians, but warrior minded (as opposed to the 4th necessity as soldiers, but following Pertys lead, architects at heart initially), keep
Death Guard/Dusk Raiders; nope

So there you have it; out of the possible ones who would have a place in the new Imperium post Great Crusade, you'd have 4, maybe 5 legions worth keeping, and not necessarily expanding. The only reason I could see to keep them would be to a) power the Golden Throne with their psykers, b) get into the webway and fuck shit up.

After then? Who knows; he didn't foresee the Heresy, but that's Chaos and funky shit, but with his astronomicon, it's questionable whether he even knew of the intergalactic threat of the nids and any potential need to have the legions around for those purposes.



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