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40k Fluff Discuss GW background material here. All those bits in the Codex that aren't stat blocks or special rules. Post your custom character/chapter/army background in our Homebrew Fluff subforum!

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post #21 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-22-15, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by darkreever View Post
The problem here is that there are three possible endings to 40k: Chaos wins, Tyranids consume the galaxy, Necrons seal the warp and win. Fantasy really only had one outcome, chaos winning; the warhammer world had an open wound to the realm of chaos in the northern pole (with no way to close it.) And it was only a matter of time before the inhabitants of the warhammer world lost enough ground to chaos, the events of the End Times simply hastened that outcome.
It's just a matter of scale. For North Pole warp portal see Eye of Terror. If there was a huge assault from and expansion of the Eye, it would mean a series of unlikely alliances between all the humanoid races to try and combat it. Sure, the Nids would still be chomping their way towards Terra, but if the 13th black crusade was only a precursor to something much, much bigger, like a demon primarch(s) led incursion, they could be temporarily ignored. It would be very easy to scale the whole thing up to a suitable level.
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post #22 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-22-15, 11:21 PM
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Have I stopped caring about 40k's fluff?

No, I have never really be into the micro details of 40k though; and some things I would rather not know - for example what ran through Horus' mind when he killed Sanguinius/died/etc.

Do I care about Marine "Loken" from the heresy, not so much - I care more about the back story of the creation of the Grey Knights, Why the Astral Claws stopped sending their Imperial Tithe...

I would like background info on as much stuff that we have where we only have "participated in the Campaign Olympus against the agents of chaos in Segmentum Solar" or wherever - Give me the info on the campaign - why was it fought, what started it, what forces were involved, etc, etc.

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if you squint the Sigmar stuff doesn't all look like the love children from a Necron and Blood Angel orgy.
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post #23 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-23-15, 08:04 AM
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I had a brief break when the Tau came out of some shiny "goodie-goodie" Mary Sue.

I like their look, but didn't liked their fluff.

Necrons were a little better tough.

And I liked the Deathwing Native American root. That was exotic, but still dark. When that was dropped, I was quite disappointed.

Heard a lot of bad thing about the work of Matt Ward, that keeped me away from the fluff for a time, nut I took the wagon back when I readed the 6th editions. This isn't all perfect now, but nothing is ever perfect anyway.

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post #24 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-23-15, 08:56 AM
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I have not as such stopped caring, but I have definitely started caring less than before. This is not to do anything with me being tired or bored with the setting, it is more with the quality (or rather, the lack of) in recent releases, especially from Black Library. All the shitty product placement stories and novellas are really burning out my interest and it takes real effort to get into any of these books.
Still, I very much enjoy the setting and the lore when I find something good to read, such as The Gothic War by Gordon Rennie. But I find it rather depressing that I look forward to re-prints more than I do towards most of the new publications.

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post #25 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-23-15, 10:19 AM
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With the emphasis less on fluff in the new books and the Heresy getting its ass dragged through every bit of dirt, I just think there's less to discuss.

I still consider 40k one of the best sci fi settings out there, even with the changes I've seen.


But aside from that, attitudes like a few of the ones in this thread (dislike of change, blaming Ward etc) have made discussing potentially interesting points a lot less appealing.


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post #26 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-23-15, 12:20 PM
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attitudes like a few of the ones in this thread (dislike of change, blaming Ward etc) have made discussing potentially interesting points a lot less appealing
Preach it. I read a lot if not all of the fluff threads but rarely post because it's not worth getting involved in the either ongoing or brewing shit-storm of nerd rage. Sometimes I just read them to witness the gong show, not even interested in what's actually being said about the fluff.

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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post #27 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-23-15, 08:25 PM
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I wouldn't say I don't care, but I also wouldn't say I'm interested right now. If they were to start some huge new plot line where the Primarchs come back and huge changes happen, I would get very into it again. As of right now, I'm reading stories much more for their battle scenes and artistic inspiration than for the actual story.

I love the universe, but the current plot has simply become too stagnant.
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post #28 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-24-15, 12:09 PM
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Rather than immediately latch onto the negatives of the fluff, why don't you at least try to interpret it in a way that is satisfactory to you?

I know a lot of people preferred the necrons as soulless killing automatons, but the fluff provided still allows for a necron force to be exactly that. Tomb worlds can malfunction, necron memory banks have been erased rendering entire necron dynasties as little more than vessels for a single all controlling AI. The old necrons you supposedly preferred are still there, only now there are other necrons with more variety for those who prefer that instead.

Ditto the c'tan, sure a lot of them are under necron control now, but the fluff also still allows for rogue star god shards to wreak havoc across the setting, and it is also made quite apparent that they are no less destructive for their supposed defeat. So what if the Emperor only beat a mere shard of the Dragon? Even a shard of a c'tan holds world ending power, so that deed is not diminished in the slightest. Same can be said for Uriel's battle with the Nightbringer, now assumed to be a shard, it still escaped and is now free to cause who knows what kind of harm elsewhere.


Don't like the Blood Angels and necrons team up? The short story Word of the Silent King fixes that anyway, by making it apparent that there was never more than an uneasy truce at best, and both sides fully intended to screw the other over at the earliest convenience.

Don't like Draigo? Well I can't help you here. I think Draigo's fluff is fine. In fact of all the denizens of the Imperium of Man, I find his story to be the most hilariously tragic. Possibly the greatest hero mankind has to offer reduced to a mere plaything of the warp gods, doomed to show pointless defiance to his captors until he finally breaks and gives up.

It's not that hard to see the bright side to any of these, or the dark side if you prefer to think of it that way.


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post #29 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-24-15, 02:15 PM
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I kinda care about 40K fluff. I would say that the Tau stuff was interesting as an idea, but in the end they seemed to be a way in game terms to reintroduce Squats, without having space Dwarves (AKA the plasma techy race).
Necrons are an odd one. Once again it was a "We need to add a new thing to sell" moment, and the original release on a White Dwarf with a ballista pack attached was a first time they had ever done that. Though the rules for the model were insane. He had marine style armour and stats and every time he died he got back up with "I'll be back" on a 2+ unmodifiable, to top that he cost the same as a marine I think. The later releases of Necrons toned them down a lot, what left people upset that there nigh invulnerable warriors were now not as tough as before. But they did get a load of bonus units and stuff to add to their ranks rather than just Immortals, Warriors, Destroyers and Lord.

Retconned history is always an annoyance, but more so in my opinion is with Forge Worlds HH game when coming in to 40K. This shows that each legion / chapter has its own specialist units that are armoured in a different way and have different abilities and skills compared to others. Of course the SM codex has chapter traits as a partial thing like that and very old Chaos Codex 4th edition had each chapter having this own skill, but were did the:
Emps Children Phalanx Termys go and Palatine Blades (with some disorder having had the legion split up might have taken a bit of a toll, but you would still expect some people to be judged at the elites)
Death Guard Grave Warden and Deathshroud (technically also Deathshroud are all dead, but surely the idea of having Termys with Power Scythes lives on).
Iron Hand Gorgons and Immortals...
Of course things like Emps Children Kakophoni became Noise Marines and Word Eater Rampagers and Butchers became Berserkers. But it seems like so many other things have been lost for what appears to be little to no reason.
Personally I would LOVE to see FW bring out 40K rules for some of these units that even if not identical to the 30K versions, but at least similar enough to the original to keep the spirit of them. I wouldn't mind even having to pay a premium cost for some of these units. Of course for competitive play that would make them unusable, but since when have units like Mutilators or Warp Talons been worth taking.

It also annoys me as some of those above with things like the Black Crusade that clearly killed off several characters, only to have them reappear in the next book like nothing happened. If you are progressing the story, you shouldn't just say "Well that didn't happen yet in this edition." Surely with all the new units and vehicles that have been created, then the battle that people like Eldrad died in might not have happened because now he has a bunch of Wraithknights and stuff backing him up. This could have meant the games that were played and reported via the website to influence the results would not have played out as they did. At least in the Blood Angels book that came after some fight with some Orks I am sure I remember that they did put something in their to say "Tycho is dead, but you can still use him in historic battles."
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post #30 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-24-15, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpion5 View Post
why don't you at least try to interpret it in a way that is satisfactory to you?
Nerd-rage takes over for imagination. Forget that this is a sci-fi setting and pretty much anything goes 'because this person invented/did this and now it works'.

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At least in the Blood Angels book that came after some fight with some Orks I am sure I remember that they did put something in their to say "Tycho is dead, but you can still use him in historic battles."
Not in the current book. There's a paragraph or so of fluff describing each version, none of which states anything about using the model in historic battles. Just the normal version and the version of him before he died.

"Some fight with the Orks" GW only did the largest store-wide campaign EVER for that battle, a little conflict called the Third War for Armageddon. I remember it going down and each country/continent that had GW stores in it controlled a portion of the map of Armageddon, and their wins/losses were entered into a database and the outcome was decided as such.

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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