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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-05-15, 03:38 AM Thread Starter
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Default Human Psykers

Hello everybody!

So my question is: with what frequency, on average, do psykers appear among human populations?

I've looked everywhere (not really) for an answer to this and the only thing I've found even close is 1d4chan's article on psykers which says that a delta level psyker will appear per every billion humans (which is actually pretty frightening if you think about it). You guys got anything on this??
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-05-15, 04:35 AM
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I've heard 1 out of a million tossed around. I vaguely recall it being in a valid source (and not mere heresay), but I can't find it.

A more "solid" number is found in the Deathwatch rule book that states there are "millions" of psykers out of a "billion billion" (1 QUINTILLION!!!)humans in the Imperium. If we estimate by "millions" there were 5 million psykers...

That means there's one psyker for every 200,000,000,000 people...or one every two hundred billion if my math is right.

Even if we took "millions" to the absolute maximum of 9,999,999 limit (otherwise ten million would be used) it's still 1/100billion. I'm still not satisfied with that number. There's clearly something lopsided with these numbers.

For one thing, there wouldn't be enough psykers to man the Grey Knights! We know from The Emperor's Gift that only one out of a million psykers that are brought to Titan are able to past their tests to become a Grey Knight! If a Grey knight lives, on average, say 200 years, that means the Imperium is probably running at least 800million psykers every 200 years...or 4 million psykers, a year!

And since Grey Knights get the absolute worst missions in the Imperium, I could imagine their average lifespan is significantly below this.
~~~~~~~

Going back, I think a billion billion humans is way too high. If the Imperium averages a million planets, that puts 1,000,000,000,000 people on each planet (or one trillion). This is clearly way too high. Probably a few orders of magnitude too high.

I did some calculations (I can dig them up if you'd like, but basically assumed the ~30,000 Hiveworlds we know exist had 30 billionish people and the rest of the planets had a 1 billion average population) and came up with something along the lines of 2 quadtrillion people in the Imperium.

5 million psykers would mean one out of four hundred million (400,000,000) are psykers. Clearly too low.

I'll go for a conservative amount of psykers for the the Imperium.

If we look at the Grey Knights and assume they get 5% of the eligible psykers (IE male) born in the Imperium, that means at a rate of 4 million psykers a year going through Titan, a total of 80 million male psykers are born a year. Double that to account for female psykers, and that's 160 million a year.

That means there's about 160 million psykers out of a 2 quadrillion population.

That leaves us with with one psyker out of a 12 million people.

That's probably a decent low end figure. I couldn't hazard a real guess what a mid or high end could be.

Edit: Screwed up my numbers, I forgot to add a few zeros to the Imperium's population!

Last edited by hailene; 02-07-15 at 09:42 PM.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-05-15, 04:23 PM
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I'm sorry Hailene but it's been established that Grey Knights are on the same level as other chapters so your claim to them having the most dangerous missions is not accurate based on established lore.

Last edited by Malus Darkblade; 02-05-15 at 04:57 PM.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-05-15, 04:34 PM
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In reality the psyker harvest is likely a lot higher than the official records. Just alone think of the number of psykers fed to the soulforges of the golden throne. A thousand reputedly are burnt to ashes daily. Now look at 10.000 years.

Methinks the Imperium is willfully understating the true number of psykers popping up, even if they are ferrying them by the truckload to terra in a desperate attempt to regulate the psychic growth of mankind.

As you know, humanity has been taught to abhor the witch. If the true number of psykers became widely known, it would cause galactic shaking purges as fanatics turns on their fellow man at the slightest suspection of witchery. And provoking persecuted psykers into lashing out at their tormentors with great risk of the perils of the warp. Another Age of Strife beckoning.
The first human federation was shattered by a massive emergence of psykers appearing and causing perils of the warp, sending mankind into Old Night.

Ignorance is bliss in the imperium, what you dont know about, doesnt hurt you until it knocks on your doorstep. I see it as a cold and cynic propanganda as the imperium takes their harvest and keeping mankind in the dark.

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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-05-15, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malus Darkblade View Post
I'm sorry Hailene but it's been established that Grey Knights are on the same level as other chapters so your claim to them having the most dangerous missions is not accurate based on established lore.
What on Earth do you mean "same level" as other Chapters?

Could you provide some sources?

The 7th Edition GK codex states, " ...Grey Knights stand against the greatest threat Humanity has ever faced. They are the champions of reason, order and righteousness, holding back Daemons and the scions of the Dark Gods."

"[The Emperor]knew that of all the Imperiumís many foes, the daemonic was the greatest threat, and so he created a brotherhood of incorruptible warriors to fight Daemons. These were the Grey Knights, and they would stand as the Emperorís ultimate weapon against the Gods of Chaos."

There's a reason the GKs get the fanciest and shiniest toys.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-06-15, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hailene View Post
What on Earth do you mean "same level" as other Chapters?

Could you provide some sources?

The 7th Edition GK codex states, " ...Grey Knights stand against the greatest threat Humanity has ever faced. They are the champions of reason, order and righteousness, holding back Daemons and the scions of the Dark Gods."

"[The Emperor]knew that of all the Imperium’s many foes, the daemonic was the greatest threat, and so he created a brotherhood of incorruptible warriors to fight Daemons. These were the Grey Knights, and they would stand as the Emperor’s ultimate weapon against the Gods of Chaos."

There's a reason the GKs get the fanciest and shiniest toys.
Can you give one citation of them being described as bigger, faster, tougher or stronger than your common-or-garden SM? They are not born, they are made, just like any other SM.

Their ability to combat demons comes from the fact the purity of their souls means they are anathema to demons, have a staggering mental strength and force of will, as well as having the ability to use the powers of the warp against them. Marry all that to artificer armour engraved with pentagrammic and hexagrammic wards, master crafted force weapons, and blessed ammunition embued with power from the waste products of the golden throne. That's how they can stand toe to toe with demons, not by being any bigger or stronger than an IF or UM.

You also seem to forget that while demons can warp reality somewhat, they are still bound by the laws of physics when manifested outside the warp.

In addition the Emperor had no hand or part in the creation of the GKs, be it their initial founding, or subsequent choice of geneseed used to found a full chapter.

If you think otherwise, sorry mate, but you are the one showing your ignorance here. Malcador assembled the first GKs, or knights errant, not the Emperor. They were presented to the Emperor by Malcador of course, but they did not become a proper chapter until after the Emperor ascended the Golden Throne. Whoever it was that gave them the specific task of fighting demons and selecting the appropriate geneseed for the fledgling chapter, it wasn't the Emperor. He had other things on his mind by then
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-06-15, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malus Darkblade View Post
Can you give one citation of them being described as bigger, faster, tougher or stronger than your common-or-garden SM? They are not born, they are made, just like any other SM.
No? But I never said this.

I just said they got the shittest missions and their life expectancy would be lowered because of this. Did you misread my post?
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-06-15, 10:34 PM
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5th Edition Dex - this is from matt ward mind :
"where the other space marine chapters were built upon existing stock, the grey knights were born of a new gene-seed, one without the flaws of those that had gone before, and which carried the gift of the emperor's own flesh and soul."

So one could make a supposition that genetically GK's are superior than regular joe marine in the sense that their gene seed seems to be attributed to the old man on the throne.

I agree that in terms of martial prowess they are most likely equal to normal sm's but they are potent pyskers in their own right and are able to manifest their powers through their nemesis force weapons so going toe to toe, they again may have an edge. They have more rigorous levels of training and so could have an edge over joe marine due to the fact they may train just that bit harder.

in many ways it is a comparison of apples and oranges, joe marine is a dedicated generalist combat tool, gk are specialist combat tool that are designed to fight and overcome daemonic entities.

Quote Wise

Inscription upon the Arcus Daemonica, attributed to the Emperor of Mankind One unbreakable shield against the coming darkness One last blade, forged in defiance of fate
Let them be my legacy to the galaxy I conquered
And my final gift to the species I failed
The Emperor's Gift (Novel) Prologue p.13
Which leads further credence that the old man, even though did not have a direct role in their creation e.g, it was malcador who did all the donkey work , would of certainly have knowledge of them and the reason for their creation as well as hints that they are created from his genetic legacy rather than a primarch with all of their flaws.

In "The Killing Ground", uriel ventris dueled a gk and was bested, he was then found to be pure, gk response (supposition) if you beat me then you would of been tainted again could lead further credence that gk's could be better.

so it is possible, yes.
night.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-09-15, 12:39 PM
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There's also the thousands upon thousands of psykers that get fed into the soulblender that fuels the golden throne per day.

It's going to be one in a million for the minor psyker potential.
You've also got those who get soul-bound into astropaths.
Then there's those that survive marine indoctrination/creation to become librarians.
Then there's the gk haul on top of that.

Then you have the higher grades. Alpha plus etc.

GW dun do maths right at the best of times. Their scaling is shown to be off by orders of magnitude time and time again.

Hey! Where'd ... Everybody ... go?
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-09-15, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malus Darkblade View Post
Can you give one citation of them being described as bigger, faster, tougher or stronger than your common-or-garden SM? They are not born, they are made, just like any other SM.

Their ability to combat demons comes from the fact the purity of their souls means they are anathema to demons, have a staggering mental strength and force of will, as well as having the ability to use the powers of the warp against them. Marry all that to artificer armour engraved with pentagrammic and hexagrammic wards, master crafted force weapons, and blessed ammunition embued with power from the waste products of the golden throne. That's how they can stand toe to toe with demons, not by being any bigger or stronger than an IF or UM.

In addition the Emperor had no hand or part in the creation of the GKs, be it their initial founding, or subsequent choice of geneseed used to found a full chapter.

If you think otherwise, sorry mate, but you are the one showing your ignorance here. Malcador assembled the first GKs, or knights errant, not the Emperor. They were presented to the Emperor by Malcador of course, but they did not become a proper chapter until after the Emperor ascended the Golden Throne. Whoever it was that gave them the specific task of fighting demons and selecting the appropriate geneseed for the fledgling chapter, it wasn't the Emperor. He had other things on his mind by then
I'll point to The Killing Ground by Graham McNeill, but I'm pretty sure you're already aware of it, being one source describing the physical superiority of the GKs to UMs, where were not your garden variety SMs... a seargent and a captain specifically with lots of service studs on their foreheads. I'm sure you have a reason for disregarding this canon.

Saying the Emperor had no hand in the creation of the GKs is like saying he had no hand in the Great Crusade simply because he wasn't physically present. Deliverance Lost describes in pretty good detail how the Emperor was still intimately aware and active in events, even after being forced to sit the Golden Throne to hold the Human Webway shut.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malus Darkblade View Post
Whoever it was that gave them the specific task of fighting demons and selecting the appropriate geneseed for the fledgling chapter, it wasn't the Emperor. He had other things on his mind by then
Do you have anything that supports this?

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