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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-18-14, 10:23 PM Thread Starter
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Default Solid info on Loyalist chapters derived from Traitor stock

Anything solid on this?

I have recently seen some talk that the Blood Ravens are in fact "Loyalist Thousand Suns" and that there is a supposed Ultramarine successor Chapter that is actually Iron Warriors.

Are there any others that we know of in detail and is any of this confirmed anywhere (yet)?

Thanks for your time and patience.
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-19-14, 01:47 AM
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Prosporo burns has some heavy hints about the Blood ravens.
Other than that there's no real solid evidence.

However there's a theory that the marines malevolent are based off of world eater gene stock. Again nothing solid.
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-19-14, 08:33 AM
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There are none confirmed in fluff. The utterly ridiculous "are they, are they not" with the Blood Ravens is so overwrought and overdone that I frankly don't give a flying fuck about them. It was Goto's inane ramblings and moonstruck ravings that gave us this particular piece of horseshit, and the "UM" chapter built from Iron Warriors? Sounds like fanfic to me.

One possible one is the Minotaurs - but they are a Chapter who has what has been described as a "chimeric" geneseed, made from splicing together several, and considering their close relations with the High Lords of Terra, and an "unkillable" Chapter Master, and that their active history is blocked by the Inquisition and High Lords. My personal belief is that it's based on the Sons of Horus (there was a story about how a craft called "the minotaur" attempted a suicide attack on traitor sons of horus during Isstvaan), mixed with something, but that's simply speculation.

The Grey Knights, it's not explicitly come out and said what's happened yet.



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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-19-14, 12:05 PM
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The Grey Knights, it's not explicitly come out and said what's happened yet.
What do you mean by this?
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-19-14, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
There are none confirmed in fluff. The utterly ridiculous "are they, are they not" with the Blood Ravens is so overwrought and overdone that I frankly don't give a flying fuck about them. It was Goto's inane ramblings and moonstruck ravings that gave us this particular piece of horseshit, and the "UM" chapter built from Iron Warriors? Sounds like fanfic to me.

One possible one is the Minotaurs - but they are a Chapter who has what has been described as a "chimeric" geneseed, made from splicing together several, and considering their close relations with the High Lords of Terra, and an "unkillable" Chapter Master, and that their active history is blocked by the Inquisition and High Lords. My personal belief is that it's based on the Sons of Horus (there was a story about how a craft called "the minotaur" attempted a suicide attack on traitor sons of horus during Isstvaan), mixed with something, but that's simply speculation.

The Grey Knights, it's not explicitly come out and said what's happened yet.
I thought the Grey Knights were Confirmed as derived from the Emperor's genestock? But there was some theory about their first chapter master being Omegeron?

The Iron Warriors mascarading as UM successors is based off of the Loyalist IW contingent that shows up working with the UMs in the recent HH books, Unremembered Empire maybe?

My problem with a lot of this stuff is how tenuous it all is.

Like we have some idea that some of the cursed foundings were made with traitor geneseed, but nothing is ever confirmed.

The Marines malevolent is a new one by me though.
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-19-14, 01:03 PM
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The BR are a gimmick by BL to cash in on the interest in the 1K sons and appeasing to fanboys by making them not as reliant on sorcery as the 1K sons. So don't expect much quality or explanatory lore on them. A one trick pony is all they are.
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-19-14, 02:20 PM
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What do you mean by this?
Knights Errant =/= Grey Knights yet in the Horus Heresy books, although everyone believes that to be the case. If not, we've simply got an overly similar name cashing in on that fact, and effectively stealing money of customers for some elaborate joke all for a similarly named special forces squad whose only notable abilities among their peers in the legion is that they are loyalists (sans Loken).

However, there are several "traitors" in the "Grey Knights", which if their geneseed gets taken from there, then they're part "traitor" legion. In regards to the Emperor giving them some juice, it's a possibility that it blends with the traitor legion stuff, but if it was all about the Emperor emptying his ballsack to make more geneseed, there'd be no need for the traitors to be relevant (or indeed, the Emperor to create the legions either).



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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-19-14, 07:39 PM
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but if it was all about the Emperor emptying his ballsack to make more geneseed, there'd be no need for the traitors to be relevant (or indeed, the Emperor to create the legions either).
It seems to be confirmed that the Grey Knights are of the Emperor's 'stock' (to some extent at least), the 5th edition Codex: Grey Knights states: "...Where the other Space Marine Chapters were built upon existing stock, the Grey Knights were born of a new gene-seed, one without the flaws of those that had gone before, and which carried the gift of the Emperor's own flesh and soul."

I've always assumed that the Knights Errant (or at least the remnants of them after their ridiculous suicide mission) went on to be the original Grand Masters and were responsible for training and organising Chapter 666 as Titan was submerged in the warp.



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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-19-14, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
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I've always assumed that the Knights Errant (or at least the remnants of them after their ridiculous suicide mission) went on to be the original Grand Masters and were responsible for training and organising Chapter 666 as Titan was submerged in the warp.
I did not know any of that. Where is that from? what leads you to believe that?

Also; apparently the Space Sharks *are not* imperial Night Lords, but they just fight like they are.
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-19-14, 08:25 PM
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I did not know any of that. Where is that from? what leads you to believe that?
Codex: Grey Knights.

The bit about the Knights Errant going on to become the original Grand Masters is just conjecture on my part, though it would make sense. At least, that seems to be the direction the Heresy series is going in. The Knights Errant and the Inquisition/Grey Knights have to be related - given what we've been told in the series thus far.



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I do love how we don't even need CotE to comment anymore, chances are he has already said something intelligent before that can be re-applied to the current situation.
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