do you agree with the philosophy of polypsykana - Page 3 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
40k Fluff Discuss GW background material here. All those bits in the Codex that aren't stat blocks or special rules. Post your custom character/chapter/army background in our Homebrew Fluff subforum!

View Poll Results: would you agree with polypsykana ideology
yes 9 52.94%
no, but psykers are still important 7 41.18%
no, i dont trust psykers 1 5.88%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-25-14, 01:54 PM
Bane of Empires
 
Child-of-the-Emperor's Avatar
Child-of-the-Emperor's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: England
Posts: 5,131
Reputation: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Chaos has none of that, they don't force anything on people if you want something you strike a bargain and you get it,

chaos is freedom.
Chaos doesn't force anything on people? What about the Chaos Space Marines who horde untold millions of humans into servitude and war? What about the gods who randomly mutate and alter their followers? What about the warp that sends mortals utterly insane?

Chaos is freedom, I agree. It is freedom from restraint and monotony. But I don't think you can paint a picture of Chaos which results in freedom for everybody, certainly not in the way you're implying anyway. Most Chaos societies we have seen in the lore are ones which are utterly dominated by the strong (mostly Chaos Space Marines or daemons) and ones in which ordinary mortals regularly suffer in servitude - their lives expendable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Might I suggest picking up the talon of horus?

It shows a fairly good take on the true nature of the warp.

The only difference between the imperium and chaos is that chaos followers aren't lying to themselves as to what's really going on.
Talon of Horus gives us the example of Chaos Space Marines. It doesn't really show us the 'freedom' of ordinary mortals (apart from the odd mention of the horrible lives of the ship's crew).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
I've read plenty of the 40K books, and the horus heresy.

All of them make me root for anyone but the imperium, at least chaos is honest about what it is, unlike the imperium which lies constantly.
Chaos is anything but honest about what it is. It is aware of what it is, but daemons corrupt and enslave by any means at their disposal - after all, daemons are obsessed with corrupting reality and will do anything to achieve their goals. Just look at some of the examples of corruption amongst the Legiones Astartes from the Horus Heresy series.

If you're claiming the Imperium lies constantly (which it does) you cannot also say that Chaos doesn't.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
I do love how we don't even need CotE to comment anymore, chances are he has already said something intelligent before that can be re-applied to the current situation.
Heresy's Background FAQ. (Fluff Project)
CotE Reviews: Prospero Burns (HH Review), Age of Darkness (HH Review).

Last edited by Child-of-the-Emperor; 10-25-14 at 03:01 PM.
Child-of-the-Emperor is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-25-14, 04:39 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,685
Reputation: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Child-of-the-Emperor View Post
Chaos doesn't force anything on people? What about the Chaos Space Marines who horde untold millions of humans into servitude and war? What about the gods who randomly mutate and alter their followers? What about the warp that sends mortals utterly insane?

Chaos is freedom, I agree. It is freedom from restraint and monotony. But I don't think you can paint a picture of Chaos which results in freedom for everybody, certainly not in the way you're implying anyway. Most Chaos societies we have seen in the lore are ones which are utterly dominated by the strong (mostly Chaos Space Marines or daemons) and ones in which ordinary mortals regularly suffer in servitude - their lives expendable.



Talon of Horus gives us the example of Chaos Space Marines. It doesn't really show us the 'freedom' of ordinary mortals (apart from the odd mention of the horrible lives of the ship's crew).
I don't remember where is says it but in talon of horus he states that everything chaos does is for a reason. Every mutation is there because it helps their fight.

As for the slaves the way I view it is that chaos works off the principle of natural selection. If you're not strong enough to ensure your own freedom and you don't have a strong enough will to prevent the mutations you don't deserve either.
Reaper45 is offline  
post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-26-14, 05:55 PM
Senior Member
 
Doom wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 112
Reputation: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
I don't remember where is says it but in talon of horus he states that everything chaos does is for a reason. Every mutation is there because it helps their fight.

As for the slaves the way I view it is that chaos works off the principle of natural selection. If you're not strong enough to ensure your own freedom and you don't have a strong enough will to prevent the mutations you don't deserve either.
And what reason it is ? Not the empowerement of chaos thrall, Obviously.

For the second statement, you admit that's your POV, but it translate well into might make right, and that's no better than the imperium. In fact, it's even worse in a sense, because natural selection is the basest order of animality.

Human nature find his power to being able to overcome nature, what animal can't.
Doom wolf is offline  
 
post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-26-14, 06:14 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,685
Reputation: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doom wolf View Post
And what reason it is ? Not the empowerement of chaos thrall, Obviously.

For the second statement, you admit that's your POV, but it translate well into might make right, and that's no better than the imperium. In fact, it's even worse in a sense, because natural selection is the basest order of animality.

Human nature find his power to being able to overcome nature, what animal can't.
That is what the warp is. It's the basest of emotions.

Everytime a sister of battle incinerates a heretic her hatred of them fuels the warp, every person who experiences emotion fuels it.

All this talk about overcoming and making better is foolish, at the end of the day everything we do is driven by the most base of instincts.
Reaper45 is offline  
post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-26-14, 07:00 PM
Senior Member
 
Doom wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 112
Reputation: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
That is what the warp is. It's the basest of emotions.

Everytime a sister of battle incinerates a heretic her hatred of them fuels the warp, every person who experiences emotion fuels it.

All this talk about overcoming and making better is foolish, at the end of the day everything we do is driven by the most base of instincts.
Yup, maybe, but it's tempered and channeled by intellect.

Chaos is just about being unrestrained about that, and not giving a damn about the other people. Surely, those thing exist in the imperium, but it's not the cardinal rules there. Now, show me a chaos corrupted chapter that treat their servitor as well as the Salamander, who are as noble as the Ultramarine, as dutiful as the Imperial Fist and maybe I will begin to consider chaos as a viable alternative.

Chaos isn't naturally present in the galaxy, the eye of terror is a cosmic accident created by an ancient psychic race that wouldn't be really bothering that many people if it weren't for that accident.

All of the chaos space marines chapters have become caricature of what they were before, without any real restraint or control, nor any real freedom other than to choose who they will destroy, plunder or attack in the name of their gods and the cultist aren't better, either.

Chaos, chaos god and chaos daemons are parasitic cosmic entity that feed on humanity, no more, feeding on their soul by promising power and freedom, when it truth, it give them nothing but eternal slavery.
Doom wolf is offline  
post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-26-14, 08:02 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,685
Reputation: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doom wolf View Post
Yup, maybe, but it's tempered and channeled by intellect.

Chaos is just about being unrestrained about that, and not giving a damn about the other people. Surely, those thing exist in the imperium, but it's not the cardinal rules there. Now, show me a chaos corrupted chapter that treat their servitor as well as the Salamander, who are as noble as the Ultramarine, as dutiful as the Imperial Fist and maybe I will begin to consider chaos as a viable alternative.

Chaos isn't naturally present in the galaxy, the eye of terror is a cosmic accident created by an ancient psychic race that wouldn't be really bothering that many people if it weren't for that accident.

All of the chaos space marines chapters have become caricature of what they were before, without any real restraint or control, nor any real freedom other than to choose who they will destroy, plunder or attack in the name of their gods and the cultist aren't better, either.

Chaos, chaos god and chaos daemons are parasitic cosmic entity that feed on humanity, no more, feeding on their soul by promising power and freedom, when it truth, it give them nothing but eternal slavery.
The emperor tried to create an imperium that was ruled by rational thinking and logic, know what tore it apart?

Envy, insecurity, hatred. Horus had daddy issues, but he was one primarch. Would peturabo have followed him if he was given the same level of respect as dorn?

Would angron have turned if the emperor allowed his legion, the legion who revered him to fight alongside him and his true gladiator brothers, instead of taking him and leaving them to die.

Every primarch that turned turned because of the primal desires that all humans have.

Secondly 99% of the imperium treats their servants as slaves. The only difference between them and chaos is that chaos isn't lying to them.
Reaper45 is offline  
post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-26-14, 10:09 PM
Member
 
Warhawk's Avatar
Warhawk's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 72
Reputation: 6
Default

As usual, the fanbase of 40k totally glosses over the positive religious aspects of the entire story, resulting in a never-ending feud between the worshipers of Chaos, and the adherents of "reason" which is a magnificent but distinctly limited human tool. I would take reason over Chaos any day, but there's far more to it than that...

Regardless, this is getting ridiculously off-topic. Not only are we showing our colors as ideologues but we're not even fighting over the ideology at stake anymore. Get back to brass tacks:

Do you support Polypsykana, or don't you? Do you think that humanity becoming completely psychic is good, or do you think it is bad? Is this really a black and white issue, considering we've had two responses to the effect that it should be embraced 'because' it is destructive, or that there is a third option?

I stick by my stance: Considering it an A or B question is a false dichotomy. There is no requirement that all of humanity change, nor is there any evidence that they all will. Perhaps the utilization of psykers could be different, but that is neither here nor there since we are talking about the fundamental destiny of the species in this universe. And this universe rather explicitly establishes that the more psychic species become, the more self-destructive they are. Better angsty teens who 'can't' summon daemons on the fly than those who can summon entire armies by accidental possession.


"There are old heretics and bold heretics, but there are no old, bold heretics. How do I know? Because I make sure of it myself."

Wing Commander Silo Barstad, Imperial Navy 3355th Fighter Wing

Last edited by Warhawk; 10-26-14 at 10:19 PM.
Warhawk is offline  
post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-27-14, 01:51 PM
Senior Member
 
Doom wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 112
Reputation: 4
Default

Back on topic, I point you to my first post.

In short, humanity could become an entire pysker species, but that's not a black and white issue. I think thta without the eye of terror, the phenomena could have been a good thing, but chaos messs it up and seems to speed the emergence of psyker population.

That doesn't make their integration a sweet process, and ultimately, it could bring the humanity's doom (pun intended) because it's inability to master the transformation.
Doom wolf is offline  
post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-30-14, 12:07 AM
Cruel Commissar
 
Beaviz81's Avatar
Beaviz81's Flag is: Norway
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 856
Reputation: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
I've read plenty of the 40K books, and the horus heresy.

All of them make me root for anyone but the imperium, at least chaos is honest about what it is, unlike the imperium which lies constantly.
At least I can see where you are coming from. True the IOM is all about lies and such, but they are the "good guys" in this setting, I mean come on. The Ruinous Powers makes you evil sooner or later, even if you ain't evil to begin with. Just look at Abbaddon and Kharn. They were once noble Space Marines, now their sole good trait are their combat-prowess. And that's how each and everyone under the influence of the Ruinous Powers ends up. They themselves might not be evil, but sure as hell they do produce evil. Even the most deluded Chaos-worshippers IRL can't deny that.

My story about the commissars Zachary Carrus and Michelle Ionza and their life and crimes https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...d.php?t=123690

Last edited by Beaviz81; 10-30-14 at 12:57 AM.
Beaviz81 is offline  
post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-30-14, 02:55 PM
Senior Member
 
Malus Darkblade's Avatar
Malus Darkblade's Flag is: Kuwait
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,332
Reputation: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warhawk View Post

And this universe rather explicitly establishes that the more psychic species become, the more self-destructive they are. Better angsty teens who 'can't' summon daemons on the fly than those who can summon entire armies by accidental possession.
The philosophy, if I am not mistaken, is based on the assumption that mankind would become a pskyer race like the Eldar with their grasp of the Warp in control.
Malus Darkblade is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Warhammer 40K > 40k Fluff

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome