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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-13-14, 06:55 AM
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they do tend to cause a lot of chaos?
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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-13-14, 04:37 PM
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The followers of Chaos are often not particularly chaotic that's true. They often start pretty chaotic though. Chaos cults come in a huge variety of forms, everything from death cults to student groups, with an equally huge variety in mandate. The only thing they all share is that they are revolutionary, they are opposed to and opposed by the current order of their environment. Cults start off random and eventually mature into something more structured (or die off).


But there is a difference between Chaos and it's followers. Chaos isn't the Traitor Legions or the Lost and the Damned, it isn't even really the daemons. Chaos is the corrupting touch of the Gods, and while the end goal is always the same there are many paths that lead to that spot and many different starting points. People fall to Khrone through love of violence or through anger, a desire for revenge or power and through a miriad of other ways. Maybe they were a soldier who got a bit too caught up in the thrill of combat; maybe they were a policemen who got a bit too pissed with the scum he had to deal with daily; maybe they were just an office worker fed up with constantly being picked on by their boss. There's no real pattern there, no way of predicting who will be exposed or whether they'll turn.

That's what truly makes Chaos chaotic, anyone at anytime is susceptible. Anyone, anywhere can turn. There are no front lines in the battle against Chaos, no armies drawn up to fight, no tactics, no safe ground and no final victories.

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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-13-14, 08:24 PM
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I think it is mostly termed Chaos because it is the anathema of everything mortals normally strive for as a society. Instead of laws, boundaries and protection, it offers the chance to break all limits and become completely free. Or at least live under the illusion of such.


Nonsense is our Salvation

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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-14-14, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpion5 View Post
I think it is mostly termed Chaos because it is the anathema of everything mortals normally strive for as a society. Instead of laws, boundaries and protection, it offers the chance to break all limits and become completely free. Or at least live under the illusion of such.
You mearly trade a religious tyrant that will shoot you for a perceived slight for a religious madman that will shoot you for shits and giggles
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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-14-14, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by locustgate View Post
You mearly trade a religious tyrant that will shoot you for a perceived slight for a religious madman that will shoot you for shits and giggles
or mutilate your body for shits and giggles, or sacrifice you to summon deamons for shits and giggles, ETC.
I think Chaos represents the anarchist side of humanity more then anything
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post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-14-14, 06:34 AM
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I think there is a lot more to this discussion.

First, Chaos as it is described in the warhammer universe is an absolute outgrowth of Michael Moorecock's Elric stories. The dukes of hell are clear templates for the chaos gods. Especially if you consider the process Elric goes through to sell his soul to Arioch and hire his sword stormbringer has ours own malign intelligence and feeds on the souls of its victims. Proto-type daemon sword anyone?

The chaos gods might seem orderly because they each represent a finite or constant concept, but they embody this essence completely. And there are two ways to think about ultimate chaos. Either it is conceived of as entropy, where everything is in a uniform state of disorder OR it can be thought of as the ongoing unpredictable turbulence created by motive powers with organizing principles interacting in inconsistent ways.

Think of a pebble dropped in a pond and the rings it makes. Now think of a single outboard motor in the same pond creating splashes and choppy water. Now think of 4 motors in the pond all running at different speeds and constant changing direction. Sometimes they run together sometimes against one another. But the splashes and ripples from each one interact destructively with the ripples from one another.

That's more of how I think about chaos. The primal unreasoning motivation of the gods creates activity and motion, but it is always in flux. Sometimes they work together sometimes they work at cross purposes.

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post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-14-14, 06:57 AM
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I think that this discussion needs some help (although @Kreuger speaks like an Apostate Preacher. Have you fought on Vraks??)
Hereby I summon the Bringer of Light, the Magnificent, the Perfect! I SUMMON THEE, OH GREAT @Lux !!!!

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The calls of Slaneesh stir so deeply within me, as if I was birthed from the very essence of it. For my ambition to infinitely ascend above all is never ending, like fire within it burns me to ever cindering ash. Lord of light and ascension is who I am, realities burn to ash at my very passing. My luminescence is unparalleled for I am luminosity itself, all light is but a shadow of my silhouette
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post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-14-14, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by locustgate View Post
You mearly trade a religious tyrant that will shoot you for a perceived slight for a religious madman that will shoot you for shits and giggles
Well true, currently Chaos represents the extremes of human impulse, in that there is near complete freedom, but no security like you would get by submitting to a society's laws.

In a time before the four powers grew to be so influential, it is possible that these changes were not so extreme.


Nonsense is our Salvation

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post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-14-14, 12:21 PM
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Chaos in general is normally Chaotic due to the lack of order.
So as a Space Marine Chapter you will normally have the best guys become leaders because they are brave, strong, tactical or whatever and they will excel in what they do and get respect from the lesser marines.
Chaos Marine Chapters can have the same deal but can also have the "I sucked up to god so he turned everyone who would have been better than me in to spawn as they got to cocky." or "This guy was clearly a better general and would have won us a load of battles and stuff, BUT I decided I wanted a turn at leading so I imbedded a force sword in his arse when he was in the shower and took over." or "We got tired of taking shit from this guy who was lording it over us, so 5-6 of us got together and killed him as a group then fought over who would replace him leaving just me and that guy."
But can also range on the random nature of the acts of the chaos gods. You are fighting a battle and suddenly a whale and a flower pot start falling out of the sky to the earth. No one knows why they are, they just are.
Or a Butterfly lands on a flower that has been touched by Chaos and becomes Mothra!

Sure the aspects of each of the gods are general straight forward, but they all have their own quirks and overlapping bits as well.
Tzeentch has been said (in liberchaotica) to be able to expand the eye of terror / realm of chaos at his own whim. He currently doesn't though because the most powerful god in the warp at the moment is Khorne... so in essence Khorne ends up winning when all the souls are divided out. But even when Tzeentch is the more powerful one he still doesn't do it. Why doesn't he... Because he is playing the REALLY long game where he like a gambler thinks he can take a small loss to make a huge gain.

Nurgle is known as the God of Decay and the God of Rot and Plague and all sorts of other ones. But he is also the God of Laugher and the Great Father who cares for his children. The Pox is said to be his gift to protect them against harm, and they enjoy picking at their scabs...

As said it is all a bit weird and the liber chaotica books were good reads when they came out probably about 10 years ago though heavily WFB based.

Last edited by mayegelt; 06-14-14 at 12:26 PM.
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post #20 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-14-14, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayegelt View Post
Chaos in general is normally Chaotic due to the lack of order.
Really? Was that necessary?

Otherwise, I agree with pretty much all your points. =)

Chaos Army Showcase with photos (Updated 2013/12/02)
"To endure one's self is perhaps the hardest task in the universe." Frank Herbert, 'Dune Messiah'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dethklokk
"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.

Originally Posted by Deathscythe4722
Could someone please call the police on this guy? I can hear the English Language screaming in pain. This has to be illegal somewhere.
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