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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-27-14, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Serpion5 View Post
Given the time frame of the War in Heaven, it seems unlikely that any c'tan would possess the knowledge necessary to hack the webway in the same way as they possess intricate knowledge of how the laws of reality work.

More likely was that Nyadra'Zatha (the c'tan responsible) figured out how the Webway works via some other means and then was able to show the necrons how to make the Dolmen Gates work.


What interests me is how were the necrons able to wage such a war for so long before that? Were they literally just flying from planet to planet via Torch ships and doing their best to wipe out the Old Ones as best they could? Because if this is indeed the case, we're talking potentially thousands of years before they could reach another world that was nearby by galactic standards.

I feel like this is a hole in the fluff that needs to be sorted out. A war as such the War in Heaven is described can't really occur without both sides having some sort of FTL, and the codex makes it clear that the necrons didn't breach the webway until the closing years.
Didn't it say they had faster than light travel in the previous codex prior to their revision?
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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-27-14, 09:07 AM
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Didn't it say they had faster than light travel in the previous codex prior to their revision?
Yes, but the current codex has removed that and specified that without their Dolmen Gates they would be forced to rely on slow moving Torch ships instead.


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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-27-14, 09:16 AM
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I figured. So it's like you said then, it's a lore hole that needs rectifying.
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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-27-14, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Serpion5 View Post
What interests me is how were the necrons able to wage such a war for so long before that? Were they literally just flying from planet to planet via Torch ships and doing their best to wipe out the Old Ones as best they could? Because if this is indeed the case, we're talking potentially thousands of years before they could reach another world that was nearby by galactic standards.

I feel like this is a hole in the fluff that needs to be sorted out. A war as such the War in Heaven is described can't really occur without both sides having some sort of FTL, and the codex makes it clear that the necrons didn't breach the webway until the closing years.
I think it's safe to say the Necrontyr/Necrons utilised an effective method of FTL travel prior to Nyadra'zatha teaching them how to access the webway with Dolmen Gates. Otherwise, as you say, they would have relied on their Torch Ships and wouldn't have even been able to remotely challenge the dominance of the Old Ones and launch the War in Heaven.

The question is then: what happened to this method of FTL travel so that the Necrons now utterly rely on the Dolmen Gates? The only thing I can conceive of is that the technology was lost (perhaps during the Silent King's uprising against the C'tan), although this is tenuous given the Necrons still maintain the most advanced technology in the known galaxy and haven't otherwise shown examples of losing technology. Other than that, it's anyone's guess.

Personally, I've always assumed it was a lore oversight.



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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-27-14, 12:51 PM
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The question is then: what happened to this method of FTL travel so that the Necrons now utterly rely on the Dolmen Gates? The only thing I can conceive of is that the technology was lost (perhaps during the Silent King's uprising against the C'tan), although this is tenuous given the Necrons still maintain the most advanced technology in the known galaxy and haven't otherwise shown examples of losing technology. Other than that, it's anyone's guess.
It is heavily hinted that the necrons are a dying race. Having lost all ability to propagate, every necron that is lost is a blow that can't be recovered from. However there is no indication either way as to the state of their technological stability.

The fact that they fear the loss of c'tan shards seems to suggest that they may not have the ability to re-capture them anymore, and it is unclear on just how much of a threat these escaped/destroyed shards are without a necrodermis shell. Lore from the Apocalypse book suggests that destroyed c'tan shards are re-claimed by their parent deity, but makes no further reference. Given that the more expanded lore of 40k makes no reference to these beings, it seems that as with the old lore their ability is limited without the necrodermis that the necrons provide.

Which leads me to ask why do the necrons keep them intact at all? I feel this is another oversight, unless there is a yet to be released fragment of lore that might tie this up.


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post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-27-14, 03:12 PM
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However, it's very hard to "lose" a Necron. You can destroy his biometallic shell, but his "real" conciousness just downloads to another one, and returns. They are neither dying nor growing. All that they have is it. Other than the AI that's replicating into Biometallic shells. He can grow forever.
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post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-27-14, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
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So in retrospect before ctan taught em how to use the webway to fuck over the old ones they perhaps used something akin to mass effect mass relay there inertial drive cept no giant relay necessary. Sure mass travel allows you easy and fast transportation bu the you can't hide in it unlike th web way.

when they discovered how webway works it seemed they wanted to play the old ones and eldar a bad joke as in saying we can use your webway you are screwed now no more places to hide. and yes the old ones after webway was breached were seriously fucked same way the eldars will be if anyone breaches there precious webway

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post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-27-14, 07:30 PM
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There are three things to say about this, Demon.

1) The C'tan were in control, what they said, went. And yes, they were more interested in disrupting the webway for their enemies the Eldar instead of caring for the race they tricked into leaving their bodies.

2) We don't know what the Inertial Drives did, or how much power they take/took. It's very possible the designs are still known to the Necrons, but they need something like a captive star to power them, and the 'crons don't generate power like that. The C'tan certainly could.

3) Domen Gates are easy and efficient to use. And, bear in mind, some Necrontyr are starting to deal with the younger races, and build hybrid empires. They MAY have warp travel through them. And, maybe they can discover a way to do warp travel without a Psyker, especially if they capture Tau Semi-Warp drives.
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post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-27-14, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Child-of-the-Emperor View Post
I think it's safe to say the Necrontyr/Necrons utilised an effective method of FTL travel prior to Nyadra'zatha teaching them how to access the webway with Dolmen Gates. Otherwise, as you say, they would have relied on their Torch Ships and wouldn't have even been able to remotely challenge the dominance of the Old Ones and launch the War in Heaven.

The question is then: what happened to this method of FTL travel so that the Necrons now utterly rely on the Dolmen Gates? The only thing I can conceive of is that the technology was lost (perhaps during the Silent King's uprising against the C'tan), although this is tenuous given the Necrons still maintain the most advanced technology in the known galaxy and haven't otherwise shown examples of losing technology. Other than that, it's anyone's guess.

Personally, I've always assumed it was a lore oversight.
The Necrons have a pretty good idea what's out there for enemies to face. Perhaps their ships still have the FTL drive's but they choose not to use them because the longer it takes to reach a planet the more the competition fights itself.
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post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-27-14, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Creon View Post
However, it's very hard to "lose" a Necron. You can destroy his biometallic shell, but his "real" conciousness just downloads to another one, and returns. They are neither dying nor growing. All that they have is it. Other than the AI that's replicating into Biometallic shells. He can grow forever.
It is actually quite easy to "lose" a necron. If enough damage occurs to the Tomb World's backup systems, or something disrupts the phase out protocols, that necron is gone. And this can happen to the best of necrons, be they a simple immortal or a phaeron.

This is before you consider the somewhat feudal nature of necron politics, where many a lord will happily engineer the permanent death of a rival in order to gain a stronger power hold for himself. Even crypteks, normally responsible for maintenance of such systems are not above making accidents happen should they feel slighted by their clients.

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2) We don't know what the Inertial Drives did, or how much power they take/took. It's very possible the designs are still known to the Necrons, but they need something like a captive star to power them, and the 'crons don't generate power like that. The C'tan certainly could.
The necrons are still quite capable of draining and weaponizing or otherwise utilizing the energy from stars. Even their resurrection orb technology is basically a miniaturized star in a bottle.

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3) Domen Gates are easy and efficient to use. And, bear in mind, some Necrontyr are starting to deal with the younger races, and build hybrid empires. They MAY have warp travel through them. And, maybe they can discover a way to do warp travel without a Psyker, especially if they capture Tau Semi-Warp drives.
Tau warp travel is unsuitable for large scale galactic travel. Nor does it account for what the necrons used before the dolmen gates.

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The Necrons have a pretty good idea what's out there for enemies to face. Perhaps their ships still have the FTL drive's but they choose not to use them because the longer it takes to reach a planet the more the competition fights itself.
But the codex states specifically that they rely on the Dolmen Gates, and would be forced to use slow moving stasis ships without them.



Something that has just occurred to me is gravity. The Imperium and eldar both use gravity tech, which makes me inclined to think the necrons could use it as well. And we know that the tyranids are also able to manipulate gravity as well by creating steep gravity wells around a planet's gravity field in order to travel FTL. This strikes me as something the necrons should easily be capable of as well.


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Last edited by Serpion5; 05-27-14 at 08:26 PM.
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