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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-02-14, 06:18 AM
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Whoa, before we jump on this Emperor-is-a-club bandwagon, where exactly does it suggest the Emperor has no finesse? Sources?

We see some skill in The First Heretic when the Emperor implants the image of Monarchia, before its destruction, in Lorgar's mind. It's a pretty comprehensive picture.

Likewise in Deliverance Lost when the Emperor speaks to Corax through Malcador (I'd assume without an Eldar wraithbone amulet like Ravenor), and then goes further to implant very specific memories, remotely, mind you, to Corax.

Granted, these aren't definitive examples, but the lore we have on the Emperor is rather...limited.

If you guys have some specific examples showing his ham-fistedness, I'd be glad to read them!
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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-02-14, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hailene View Post
Whoa, before we jump on this Emperor-is-a-club bandwagon, where exactly does it suggest the Emperor has no finesse? Sources?

We see some skill in The First Heretic when the Emperor implants the image of Monarchia, before its destruction, in Lorgar's mind. It's a pretty comprehensive picture.

Likewise in Deliverance Lost when the Emperor speaks to Corax through Malcador (I'd assume without an Eldar wraithbone amulet like Ravenor), and then goes further to implant very specific memories, remotely, mind you, to Corax.

Granted, these aren't definitive examples, but the lore we have on the Emperor is rather...limited.

If you guys have some specific examples showing his ham-fistedness, I'd be glad to read them!

Ask the eldars. After all it is their view, and not our's, we're discussing.

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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-02-14, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hailene View Post
Whoa, before we jump on this Emperor-is-a-club bandwagon, where exactly does it suggest the Emperor has no finesse? Sources?

We see some skill in The First Heretic when the Emperor implants the image of Monarchia, before its destruction, in Lorgar's mind. It's a pretty comprehensive picture.

Likewise in Deliverance Lost when the Emperor speaks to Corax through Malcador (I'd assume without an Eldar wraithbone amulet like Ravenor), and then goes further to implant very specific memories, remotely, mind you, to Corax.

Granted, these aren't definitive examples, but the lore we have on the Emperor is rather...limited.

If you guys have some specific examples showing his ham-fistedness, I'd be glad to read them!
A example that comes to my mind, the Eldar foresaw the whole Heresy problem Years before it happen, Emperor was blinded till it really cost him.

Heres another, Eldar mastered Webway tech and psy ability to use it for eons, while the Emp was having so much time and effort just to access a single webway portal.

Also Emperor examples you gave are real basic modern day Psychic TV show stuff. Hardly that impressive. Communicating great distance is meh when he has the raw power to. Implanting thoughts and such is also meh when simple Jedi Mind tricks do the same in Star Wars. Nothing the Emperor has ever shown to be finesse or versatile power wise unlike Eldar. He shown great power, but thats it.
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post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-02-14, 01:58 PM
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Wait, didn't the old ones build most/all of the webway? Or were they retconned out?

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post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-02-14, 02:50 PM
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Wait, didn't the old ones build most/all of the webway? Or were they retconned out?

Correct, they did. Eldar simply inheritage it but has never had the knowledge on how to replicate or maintain it. Atleast not post-fall, atleast not craftworld eldar. Dark Eldar might with their residence in the webway and their portable webway portals.

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post #16 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-02-14, 03:48 PM
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I think of the Eldar as effete snobs that have always had things handed to them, and humans as the poor cousins who have earned everything that they have via blood, sweat, and tears. The Eldar ruled the universe for years, but in the end their own incompetence and failure to see the situation for what it really was is the whole reason they fell.

In all actuality the 'true' Eldar are infact the Dark Eldar. They are what is left of the Eldar race as they truly evolved themselves. The ones that are in Codex: Eldar are the small percentage that saw the truth and decided to change themselves into a more 'green' culture ... fucking tree huggers. All of them are longer lived than a normal human and most are horrified by the thought of mechanical limb replacement, or cybernetic upgrades ... humans ... not so much. As a matter of fact, I would think that a large majority of humans would welcome it if it were a great benefit with no drawbacks.

The Emperor is more battle psyker oriented than any Eldar psyker is IMO. I have never read of any Eldar completely obliterating anyone's soul out of all existence. I could be wrong about that but I have never read anything to the contrary. One other thing to consider is that the Emperor also hid his existence from all for many millennia. If he can do that to the super psyker Eldar, then I think he is more powerful than even they could imagine that he is.
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post #17 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-02-14, 04:26 PM
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... The Eldar ruled the universe for years, but in the end their own incompetence and failure to see the situation for what it really was is the whole reason they fell.

In all actuality the 'true' Eldar are infact the Dark Eldar. They are what is left of the Eldar race as they truly evolved themselves. The ones that are in Codex: Eldar are the small percentage that saw the truth and decided to change themselves into a more 'green' culture ...
Ah yes, craftworld Eldar. The puritan pilgrims of the warhammer 40k universe.

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post #18 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-02-14, 04:36 PM
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Dark Eldar are the true Eldar in tech. Craftworld Eldar are true Eldar in Psy potential. They both have pros and cons.

Also pretty sure both have knowledge on how to maintain the webway, and repair it, or add to it like the DE have.
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post #19 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-02-14, 06:10 PM
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A example that comes to my mind, the Eldar foresaw the whole Heresy problem Years before it happen, Emperor was blinded till it really cost him.
It seems otherwise, at least from The Outcast Dead.

And even if this was the case, just because SOME Eldar (namely one) foresaw something the Emperor MAY not have seen, that doesn't mean the Emperor is hamfisted.

It just means (particular Eldar) saw something he did not.

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Heres another, Eldar mastered Webway tech and psy ability to use it for eons, while the Emp was having so much time and effort just to access a single webway portal.
The Eldar did not "master" the Webway. They inherited it from the Old Ones.

Also, the Webway has nothing to do with psychic finesse.

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Nothing the Emperor has ever shown to be finesse or versatile power wise unlike Eldar.
Nothing has shown it to the contrary either. The funny thing about making claims is that you actually need support. The lack of support is not sufficient evidence when making a claim.

Key note: I am not making a claim other way. Is the Emperor a lumbering behemoth of a psyker? I do not know. Is he more subtle than the Eldar? I can not make that claim either. I lack sufficient evidence. Do you?
~~~~~~~

I don't have my codices on hand, but I think there's sections of the Webway beyond the means of the Eldar to repair. I'll double check this when I get home.
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post #20 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-02-14, 07:21 PM
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The Emperor consorting with the Pantheon speaks volumes about his abilities and the fact that he is the only uncorruptible being. The pantheon fear him and refer to him as the anathema while the Eldar cower the moment Slaanesh's name is mentioned.
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